India Pakistan Military Comparison
Conventional Force Comparison
The conventional military balance is tilted far in India’s favor. India has achieved numerical and qualitative superiority in many military categories, particularly in mechanized ground forces and in attack aircraft. It has a two-to-one advantage in tanks and a three-to-one advantage in modern tanks. India also has true infantry fighting vehicles, giving its mechanized infantry much more firepower and mobility than the Pakistani infantry. The two-to-one overall advantage in aircraft grows to almost a six-to-one advantage when one compares just the most modern and capable aircraft – a category in which Pakistan lost its earlier edge after over a decade of U.S.-led international sanctions.[2] This disadvantage is very significant because Pakistan has little strategic depth; that is, many of its strategic assets are close to its border with India.
Both India and Pakistan have offensively oriented conventional military doctrines. India has developed an offensive-defensive military doctrine that calls for aggressive offensive action to pre-empt or counter-attack the enemy. Currently, India is exploring the concept of limited conventional war based on the notion of strategic space between low-intensity conflicts and full-scale conventional war. This concept is fueled by political and public pressure within India to launch conventional military strikes against Pakistan in retaliation for Pakistan’s alleged support of terrorism.[3] The Pakistani army also relies on an offensive-defensive strategy, which is characterized by retaining adequate reserves at successive force levels, surprise, and aggressive leadership. This strategy calls for the Pakistan army to detect the initial enemy thrust, take effective counter measures to limit penetration, and simultaneously attack the adversary to capture or threaten a strategic objective.[4]
Strategic Nuclear Balance
Each country possesses a stockpile of nuclear weapons components and could assemble and deploy several nuclear weapons within a few days to a week.[5] The size, composition, and operational status of each nuclear arsenal are closely guarded secrets, but sufficient public information exists to make general assumptions about the strategic balance in South Asia.[6]
Assuming that the Cirus and Dhruva research reactors produce 25-40 kg of bomb-grade plutonium annually, by the end of 2002 India could have stockpiled between 280-600 kg of weapon-grade plutonium.[7] Although India also has a program to produce highly enriched uranium (HEU), it is not known if the program has managed to produce weapon-grade HEU. Experts assess that India could require as little as 5 kg and as much as 7 kg of plutonium per weapon. Considering the worst- and best-case assumptions about Indian weapon design, it could possess enough fissile material for between 40 and 120 weapons, with 70 as the median estimate.
Unlike India, which relies on plutonium for its weapons, Pakistan’s nuclear program is based on HEU. If Pakistan’s Kahuta enrichment plant is able to produce 80-140 kg of weapon-grade uranium per year, Pakistan today could have 815-1230 kg available for weapons production. The amount required for a bomb is believed to be 12-25 kg, depending on the weapon design Pakistan employs. In addition, an unsafeguarded heavy-water research reactor recently constructed at Khushab produces plutonium that could be reprocessed to make a few nuclear weapons annually. Adding together its possible plutonium and HEU inventories, Pakistan could have enough fissile material to produce between 35 and 95 weapons, with 60 as the median estimate.
Each state has various aircraft and ballistic missiles that could be used to deliver nuclear weapons. In 2001, DOD assessed that India would most likely employ fighter-bomber aircraft for delivery because its ballistic missiles probably were not yet ready. The air force has several aircraft that could be employed for this mission, but the best suited would be the Jaguar, Mirage-2000, MiG-27, or Su-30. India has deployed short-range Prithvi 1 missiles that are capable of carrying a 1000 kg warhead (the presumed maximum size of a nuclear device), but because of Prithvi’s restricted range, India will probably turn to its new solid-propellant Agni 1 missile, which has a 700-900 km range and was rushed into development after the 1999 Kargil conflict. The Agni 1 and the 2000-3000 km-range Agni 2 missile are likely to become India’s preferred missile platforms when they become operational.
Pakistan has placed a high priority on acquiring ballistic missiles to offset India’s conventional military advantages and to ensure reliable delivery of nuclear weapons. Although the Pakistan Air Force F-16 and Mirage 5 aircraft probably are capable of nuclear delivery, the liquid-fuel Ghauri 1 and 2 missiles developed with North Korean assistance, and the solid-fuel Shaheen 1 and 2 missiles developed with Chinese help, are more likely choices.[8]
India’s draft nuclear doctrine, published in August 1999, is based on a retaliatory, no-first-use policy.[9] The doctrine casts Indian nuclear forces principally as a deterrent against a nuclear attack on India. Pakistan has not publicly announced an official nuclear doctrine, but it is concerned with deterring India from taking advantage of its conventional superiority. Pakistan appears to have adopted a nuclear first-use policy to deter India from using its conventional military superiority.[10]
Survivability at Risk
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Large-scale conventional warfare between India and Pakistan has the potential to threaten the survival of Pakistan’s strategic nuclear forces. However, limited Indian attacks, such as a retaliatory strike on the ground or through the air, would not serve as a real threat to Pakistan’s strategic weapon systems.
The asymmetries of strategic depth and offensive military capability give India an operational advantage, and may create a situation in which India’s conventional ground or air forces come into contact with Pakistan’s strategic nuclear forces. Pakistan’s shorter-range Hatf 3/M-11 ballistic missiles must be stationed fairly far forward to reach strategic targets in India, perhaps leaving them vulnerable to both air and ground attack. The same is true of Pakistan’s forward airbases, which are within easy striking distance of the border. This is a very troubling scenario because Pakistan places great emphasis on its strategic nuclear forces to deter a large-scale conventional attack by India. The survival of Pakistan’s strategic forces is critical to Pakistan, and a threat to them could place pressure on Pakistan to launch a nuclear attack while the strategic forces are still intact and capable of making a credible impression upon India.
India’s greater strategic depth allows it to disperse its strategic nuclear forces to areas beyond the normal range of enemy ground and air operations. Longer-range platforms, such as the SU-30 aircraft and the Agni 2 missiles, further decrease Indian vulnerability. When combined with India’s presumed retaliatory-only nuclear doctrine, this would seem to minimize the possibility of Pakistan degrading India’s strategic deterrent capability so severely that India is pushed into a “use them or lose them” situation.
Command and Control Threatened
Large-scale conventional warfare between India and Pakistan also could threaten vital strategic command and control functions. This is particularly true for Pakistan since India has made a major investment in intelligence gathering and precision-strike capability.[11] There also may be a significant overlap between Pakistan’s normal conventional operational command and control structures that would be subject to attack in a large-scale war and its strategic command and control structure. If Pakistan lost command and control of its strategic forces, would national command authorities consider ordering the use of remaining strategic nuclear forces while they could still affect some degree of deterrence?
Pakistan’s presumed inability to identify and attack India’s C4I probably precludes any appreciable loss of command and control over India’s strategic force during a conventional war. This is reinforced by a several factors, including India’s reliance on negative control features, and its greater strategic depth. A conventional attack on India’s command and control structures probably would cause only a delay in retaliatory nuclear strikes, and not lead to the inadvertent use of nuclear weapons.
There are no indications that India has pre-delegated nuclear release authority. However, New Delhi might find that its strategic command and control functions are unable to cope with the effects of a full-scale conventional war. Under such circumstances India’s senior leadership may have to cobble together a system while under pressure. There are no indications that Pakistan has pre-delegated nuclear release authority. However, it too may find that its strategic command and control functions are unable to cope with the effects of a full-scale war. Pakistan would be under tremendous pressure to create a workable system if its strategic command and control system is at risk. Pakistan’s reliance on nuclear deterrence could force it to adopt pre-delegation of nuclear release authority if there were no other method to ensure delivery.
Fear of Pre-emption
Large-scale conventional warfare between India and Pakistan almost certainly would include air and ballistic missile attacks. Attacks by these inherently dual-use systems have the potential to be interpreted as pre-emptive attacks to destroy or neutralize the adversary’s nuclear capability. This is especially true for Pakistan since India has invested heavily in improving its intelligence gathering and precision-strike capability. India also has made a major investment in defensive measures, including a limited ballistic missile defense.[12] Pakistan may believe that India is trying to gain the ability to launch a pre-emptive attack and deny Pakistan the ability to counter with an effective second-strike with a reduced force. Could this concern lead Pakistan to adopt a launch-on-warning or launch-under-attack posture where any Indian air- or ballistic missile attack could be interpreted as a pre-emptive strike and cause Pakistan to launch its nuclear weapons?
Pakistan’s limited ability to identify and attack India’s strategic nuclear assets probably precludes any appreciable loss of India’s retaliatory capability even if Pakistan launched a pre-emptive attack. This condition is reinforced by India’s greater strategic depth, and its superior air and ballistic missile defenses. An air- or ballistic missile attack on India probably would elicit a strong response, but probably not a nuclear response.
Conclusion
India and Pakistan do not want war; and they certainly do not want to fight a nuclear war. As strong as this desire is, however, New Delhi and Islamabad are caught in a spiral of tension and mistrust that could cause the next regional crisis to flair into armed conflict. If India and Pakistan do find themselves engaged in a large-scale conventional war, escalation to a nuclear exchange probably would be averted because of the strategic balance that now obtains. However, their asymmetrical conventional force capabilities and doctrines could create pressures for one side to launch nuclear weapons, even if they would prefer not to. The three scenarios of inadvertent war outlined above show how India’s superior conventional military power might so seriously degrade the Pakistan national command authority’s confidence in its nuclear deterrent that a nuclear war begins that nobody wants. Even if the risk of inadvertent nuclear war is judged to be low, steps should be taken to ensure that India and Pakistan do not become embroiled in even a limited war. The United States can play a constructive role in the region by taking steps to help keep the peace and reorienting its arms transfer policy to help stabilize the military balance.
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Well formulated analysis.
regards,
Siddhant
India
The war is not just won because one has better weapon . It is won with higher moral , superior training and a desperate need to win . A soldier with destoyed home town / village got no where to go , may end up fighting with even more zeal and vigour . The Muslim if Indian Subcontinent have beaten better armed and larger hindu armies before .
So let us not depair because India has better conventioal weapons and more soldiers . Let us tain our soldiers better and give more space to our officers with more imaganative strategies.
You are absolutely right, Muslims have always fought vigorously and defeated many Kingdoms and Empires no matter how lethal they were.
And areas under control Muslim Leaders, not only gained better living but prospered even more in all areas of social life.
yes my friend the world has seen the vigour of ur ppl in 1965 1971 and 1999 when all three times u surrendered at our feet. . . .
your have been miss guided by your government plz read my following message
how many wars u hav won. pak was born in 1947.u fought 2 and lost both created the third and had to retreat. u will still remain pakistan after all.
my friend in 1948 who went to security council,when colonel hasan(6 kashmir infantry) was kicking on your asses with his tiger force,who attacked at night in 1965 and you were made to piss in ur paints leaving an area of 300 miles you remember khem karan ask your elders about it,my friend when ever u come to pakistan plz inform me i will show u ur tanks u left in the field,1999 kargil sonia ghandi said we do not have enough wood to burn the chitas ,i think that is more than enough for u
You forgot 1971 when the brave, tough pakistan army took east Bengal away from India and gifted it to the Bangladeshis!! How could you forget that 90000 brave Pakistani soldiers stayed back in India for a year to make sure that our POW camps are clean!!
quanda
one thing you leave to tell us history and it is circumstances.
in 1965 the circumstances is different for the same pak army which fought in 1971. the circumctances is totally defferent. in 1971 most bangali politicans want to get seprate state and it is conspircy which embeded in their soul after 1947 and i am talking about politicans not bangali inocent people. And thats whay bangali get sepration form pakistan but pakistani army is still brave than cowardice indian army whoes always go out to leave their amunation and all weapons in war and in prove in 1965 1971 and 1999 war.
and in 1999 war pakistani army enter in kargail and indian force could not take any action against brave pakistani army. you have to remember this statement of indian politican
“he said we have not enough wood to burn chitas” and if you want to know name of this politian i will tell you
but one thing i will say to you that truth is always win not lie and you and your government establish a wrong them and always sperate propoganda against pakistanies
pakistan have lot of prove that indian involoves in pakistan terrorism and thats why india will not come into the discussion table
discussion is only way for problem not propoganda
and indian will have to change their attitudes against pakistani
if they will not then the day is not far when india will divided in to different states or may be merge with another country so plz make positive attitued with you neighbors particularly pakistan, china, bangladash, and srilanka
@dilawar
The problem with you seems to be that all of your information is gained from your vernacular local media and your government hand-outs. Your limited knowledge and command of the english language evidently makes it difficult for you to read and understand facts from non-pakistani, neutral sources like the internet. Show me one -JUST ONE- non-pakistani source which said India lost the conflict and suffered heavier losses, can you? CAN you??
While you search for the name of the Indian politician who said,”we have not enough wood to burn chitas”, I can give you the name of the Pak politician who said that 4000 Pak soldiers were killed in the conflict – none other than your prime minister Nawas Sheriff!
If Kargil was a big Pak victory, how come Nawas Sharif and Musharraf were blaming each other for the debacle?? Did you see our prime minister Vajpayee and our army chief accusing each other?? How come Nawas Sharif tried to get rid of his “victorious”(!!) army chief, but got himself kicked out instead?? Why did Benazir Bhutto say that Kargil was “Pakistan’s greatest blunder”?? Why did Lt.Gen.Ali Kuli Khan say it was “a disaster bigger than the East Pakistan tragedy”?? Does all this happen in a country which has just won a war?? Think!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War
Your dream of India breaking up is just that – a dream! But you do have a right to dream, and no one take that away from you! So, dream on!!
oh my god you have less information about the real picture. i think you are being miss guided by some one or by your corrupt government. the real picture is that Pakistan has better weapons than India and i accept that India has big army but my dear quantity is not a big deal. The quality is better than quantity and India very well know courage of Pakistani army. my dear this have proved by the time in war that how India defeated in all field by Pakistan. you know that you consider that Pakistan is your real rival and you want to defeat but Pakistan is facing lot of enemies like India. if your army is better, your first priority is to defeat Pakistan but it would not be happen because Pakistani army has quality and its friend country like china, Iran, Srilanka, suadiarab, and all Muslim countries are with Pakistan. And my dear i proud to be Pakistani.
dilawar,
Pakistan has more better weapons than India because he is not developing them but begging them from US, China and other countries. Yes of course quantity doesn’t matter over quality but tell me one thing that if your army is more better than India Army then why you couldn’t be able to occupy full Kashmir?
Why your great 93,000 army personnel surrendered in front of India? Why Bangladesh came in existence if you had better army then India? Pakistan is jumping because of China and India also know that. May be corruption in India, our weapons may be less advanced but don’t make a mistake of underestimating India’s capabilities.
Your China can also don’t do it alone because they also know that if they attack on India alone they will be no more super power and that’s why they are giving arms to Pakistan so that Pakistan fight with India and his objective achieved without loosing much.
If you have brain think about it. If you don’t have then come and attack to India and see the results.
plz send me ur email id frnd will send u an article
aricle pls…
your artical underlies on lie bcz your are being become fool by your government and your army
plz things about all from your brain
come on dilawar, didnt u c dat picture of gnrl niasi surrendering to india? didnt u c dat pictures of karachi port in 1971 war? plz go back to ur home nd check whether it is there or invaded by any taliban terrorists. atleast 100 bombs r blasting every month in pakistan. just think , even the terrorists made is possible to attack ur airforce camp nd kill ur airmens , assume wht wud be the result if india decides to go after ur vegetable soldiers?
Aee avinasshhh dont eat meet ohhh.. Kakriiis… !!
HAHAHAHA
There is a proverb called “Barking dog seldom bite”
Speak logically and don’t beat around the bush.
A Troll
u will run in olympics with how many flags on your shirt
Let me come to your post point by point.
“oh my god you have less information about the real picture.” – Can you provide more information from non-Pakistani source?
“i think you are being miss guided by some one or by your corrupt government.” – The corrupt politicians cannot miss guide the War historians and major Super powers like US and USSR.
“Pakistan has better weapons than India and i accept that India has big army but my dear quantity is not a big deal.” – Simple Logic… If Pakistan had better weapons and it won the war means… Kashmir should be with Pakistani’s hands…. Why is Pakistani Presidents, Prime Ministers and Dictators sending the terrorists on and on>?
“The quality is better than quantity and India very well know courage of Pakistani army.” – I remember the concept called ‘one Pakistani solider is equal to 4 Inidian soliders’…. But the war casualities shows nothing like that.
“this have proved by the time in war that how India defeated in all field by Pakistan.” – Pakistan defeated India in the field of sending more and more terrorists to this world. No country can defeat Pakistan in this Field.. Hats off to Pakistan.
“Pakistani army has quality and its friend country like china”-
Where were your chinese friends in 1971 and 1999?
“Iran” – Iran is not yet a Nuke powered Nation, They will not mess with us, more than, Indias invested more in Iran than Pakistanis… Iran is India’s allay.
“Sri Lanka” – Good Joke…. Sri Lanka’s will not even think about it, This show how much world political knowledge you have…
“Saudi Arabia” – Americans will not allow them to do it… and India imports more Oil from Saudi than Pakistan. Further to that There is no great bonding between Pak and SA.
Buddy this is not World war III.
We too have great allay like US, Our all whethered friend ‘Russia, Our New friend Israel.
My Dear friend,
Can you provide one single instance for “The Muslim if Indian Subcontinent have beaten better armed and larger hindu armies before .”
I would like to remind you that a significant portion of Indian armed forces composite of Muslims.
There are more muslims in India than in Pakistan who live in Peace and harmony. There may be one or two instances of clashes. But that does not define a country’s Culture.
I have many muslim friends, We live in harmony…. Pakistan can match India in their day dreams.
We as Indians encourage everyone to dream, As adviced by our ever greatest President Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam.
rekash
if you say that there are Muslims more than in pakistan so why Indians burn Muslims villages, why in your films you used Muslims as a enemy, and why Indians do valiance on Muslims visitors particularly Pakistani visitors?
there are more questions but answer of this question is very necessary
Indian government claims for democracy , for a huge democratic government but why they not use flexiblity in Pak Indo peace process. why Indian govt stops rivers water and go against sindh-taas?
As a human being do you not think that such types of cold war should be ended and should be given a chance of peace for all
if there is no Pakistani army in this region Indian forces try to captured all the region
so we can say that Pakistani forces are the huge a massive threat for Indian army to stop them such illegal action which it has already done in Kashmir.
asshole
come lick our shoe
Admin… can you take care of this?
in Hindu religion woman are burned when her hubby is died
so it is called sati
and Hindus are increasing human violation
so what you all say about it
its mean that Muslims are best nations ever in the world
@Dilawar: Sati practice has vanished for more than 150 years now… I am a Hindu and do not belive in the following aspects of hinduism – Sita’s agni pariksha, the caste system. but as a society we are tollerant and free to put our point to anyone here in India.
But in your societies women are not even treated as equal members, Quranic verse 4:34 allows Muslim men to discipline their wives by striking them. In Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine. Testimony to the fact is that none of the OIC member agree to the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Also there are so many things in islam I condemn – apostasy from Islam a crime punishable by death, the attitudes towards homosexuals, the veiling of women, the violence towards critics of Islam, destruction of other faiths’ arts and books, jihad against non-muslims. You want free kashmir, chechnia, and palestine and support their cause but not for free tibet, tamil eelam.
some idiots do it not all indians
but u all marry as many women as possible . even rape them and then marry them… the whole world knows of it the condition of women in pak is an open fact. in india there are women suffering, but there are kiran mazumdar, indira nooyi, mother teressa, ….
u ass hole pakistani we r proud to be indian
your approach is not good
as what you say its shows your nature and your environment and your attitude of people for you
Very bad
u ****head.
stop talking about nature and attitude.
world knows who you are. u crazy ****
if u r talking about sati, u should know that that’s past, when your so called pak-shit-han was a part of us. And talking about burning muslim villages, you should remember what u were trying to do in 1999 kargil and 1971. Stop entering our houses or u ll b penalised the same way.
**** u
U arrogant low class Hindu. U r all MF’s of the lowest order of the human species Other wise you will not use such foul dirty language. This only shows who is superior. How dare U attack my Muslim brother
Ah, Rezan, there goes the flimsy mask of decency that you were trying to sport all along!
When it comes to the crunch, your real (madrassah) class shows! After all, you are what you are 
Yes this is what we are… We dont have to get ur approval of how to be.. Be careful of our craziness though.. Or ull be ruled by muslims for another thousand years..
Usman,
Yes this is you are. And nobody want to deal with you. Also we are eager to see your craziness which we’re looking since last 60 years. 1948, 1965, 1971 this all was your craziness but you forgot our strength. And forget to rule by muslim for thousand years or century or even few years. You coward guys can’t beat India and rule even for few days.
Try us man. I dare all u indians. We will see who will hide in their homes n who will fight until the last drop of blood… U coward back stabbing leeches.!!
N get over 71. Pak has changed alot militarily since then. U forget how ur khatamm soldiers were killed like dogs by us recently in Kargil. Ur whole media n nation kept crying for the atrocities of Pak.. U coward F***ks.. We dont need anyone but our God n faith. We very well know China aint coming to our help anymore.
N ya everythings fair in War.. So bring it on u B**l S***ters.
This is your nature to underestimate other’s power. What do you think Pakistan has changed it’s military then India has kept it’s military like 20 years before?
If you think so then you’re the foulest person. Think if China can’t dare to attack on India then what will happened to you.
In height and good position you came like thief and killed soldiers but if your soldiers were that much strong then why they run away from there. Your politician bagged to India to let them take back and your people were dyeing more.
And Namardo hamari sister’s hi kaafi hai tum hizdo ko harane ke liye. Kabhi attack karne ki himmat to karo.
to usman. u committed atrocities on PoWs u will pay. ya our govt is too soft they wont listen to the parents of the soldiers dont worry .
i accept u hav the better terrorists for we hav non.
well if tere is a war u forget it will be between india and pak not hindu muslim. and remember we dont run we let u run always next time we wont so train ur terrorists better ops i mean ur army, any way both are the same
u know it
kyu tra abbu na doo saadiya ki thi ek wife sa tu huaa duusari sa deelwar
pankaj
I regret on you wording and remember, these shameful wording i can also be used but first as a Muslim and second as a human being its my duty to careful about ethics and gives respect to others. In Islam that gives to much stress on respect and even says that don’t say against any religion and any person. But here you proof that how you are and your religion. I am not saying that you are at wrong but your wording saying that you are and your behavior is always against Muslims and particularly against Pakistani and you thing that all the world is bad
But I believe, your behavior comes changes because our soft attitudes will mould your stone type heart
Please once a time study completely that what is Islam and how it teaches us to talk others and gives respect and how live to others
I am sure that it can changes your behavior
you will lick our feet. do you forget,in 1948 when your big dog went to UNO begging stoppage of war. because you were losing kashmir from just kashmiri mujahedeen. so stupid indian’s army is which was like sheeps in front of kashmiri mujahedeen,and now claims to be better than great PAk ARMY.first try to restrict mujahedeen of kashmir which are still unbeaten before your 0.8 million troops in occupied kashmir.
Dilawar
First of all you must stop watching movies as that is not true at all. See problems lies everywhere and sometimes conflict also happens then it doesn’t mean the they are enemy to each other and they should divide.
Now come to peace process so if you can guarantee that ISI and Pakistani government stops there all terrorist training camps and surrender most wanted 13 terrorist then I can guarantee that India will welcome each Pakistani who will come for friendship. India provided evidence and demanded former ISI chief and Lashker chief but every time Pakistani government stated the need of more evidence. What is this? The problem is that if Pakistan will not stop their terrorist training camp and accept that Kashmir is Indian part, India would not be able to go ahead for peace process and we would continue to abuse each other.
hw nice if india stop training terrorists against pakistan in india as well as in afghanistan[10 camps]the problem would b easily solve . y doesnt india realize that kashmir is the integral part of pakistan?if indid accepts than peace can prevail.
Hello, Ask the international community who trains terrorists aginst whom?
I am not really sure whether India trains terrorist against against Pakistan, I hope you are doing something in Kashmir and we should do 6 X (What you do in Kashmir)
If one bombs explodes in India, 6 bombs should explode in Pakistan, I know an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind… but no other go. We have to give your own medicine to make you to come to senses.
You are allowing the Pakistani Terrorists to speak Ani-India Jihad, We should also arm the Baloch militants and Anti Pakistani Taliban to fight against the Pakistani’s.
Kashmir is an integral part of India, Periods… Refrain from making statements on it.
If you are ready to wage 100 years war… We are ready to wage a war till the last Indian survives.
dont say pakisthani visitors, say pak terrorists
Ya.. N ur the dirtiest n grose n disguting filth on the face of this earth..
first look your face on mirror dude. you terrorist nation where terrorist abuse India in open place in front of thousand of crowd and you says that we don’t support them. Wow what a nice excuse.
I really feel that now India should acquire very aggressive strategy with Pak and China to teach them lesson.
And Hallo!! China is not going to help you!!! China is not a fool and he knows easily that war with India can make china totally destoyed. China is just using Pakistan because if Pakistan fight with India then pakistan will disappear from the map of globe but in this case nobody would be so much powerful as china and hence nobody would challange china.
Try us man. I dare all u indians. We will see who will hide in their homes n who will fight until the last drop of blood… U coward back stabbing leeches.!!
N get over 71. Pak has changed alot militarily since then. U forget how ur khatamm soldiers were killed like dogs by us recently in Kargil. Ur whole media n nation kept crying for the atrocities of Pak.. U coward F***ks.. We dont need anyone but our God n faith. We very well know China aint coming to our help anymore.
N ya everythings fair in War.. So bring it on u B**l S***ters.
Haider,
Are you a fool, What is the role of Solider’s Zeal and Vigour in front of a Nuclear Weapon?
I am a Indian, I am a muslim, I don’t think this is a complementary Statement.
In India a muslim had reached the post of a President, Captain to Indian Cricket Team and many higher posts.
Is it possible in your country?
Can you kindly explain me about your ‘imaganative strategies ‘ Please.
We are a Billion, You cannot even beat that.
ansari you people are like a mir jaffer.
ok.. so Ansari is bad because he loves his motherland. Do you really expect Indian muslims to love pakistan. I guess that did happen in the past but after seeing how talibans are treating pakistani muslim brethern even muslims in india hate pakistan.
one thing i want to mentioned here
if you are wise man can accept my words
why Indians use Muslims as a enemy in their mostly films so they people thing you as a enemy?
Mr Ansari you don’t know the meaning of independence because you have become habitant as slaves.
why the Muslims of subcontinent demanded a new country why?
The reason was that which i told you
and you have talked about that is it possible for Muslims to get high job
so in pakistan there are many people form minority are well established and passing theirs life peacefully
but in India you as minority you are called terrorist and burned in Gujrat Maharashtra and utarpardash and you are saying…what?
as i Muslim we can feel our brother {Muslim}
because every Muslim is brother for other Muslims
and you should take a bird view of asad comments
Can you name the films?
And a true pakistani muslims should never see a Indian satelite TV and Indian Movies.
What what is your meaning to Independence? I hope all the citizens of India are living peacefully, Also there are many muslim people who are in high positions.
Gujarat is a condemmable thing… and it is our own problem and we don’t need you to feel for us.
Mind you ******* business.
sir your so called president is mere a puppet.practically he can do nothing.try to peep into reality.
He is not a Puppet, He can dissolve the government, He is the supreme commander of Armed forces.
No one can challenge him in the court of law, The only thing which can challenge his is the Pariliment, That incudes the opposition also.
If President post is puppent, We could have made little puppy dog as President…. Sorry buddy that also requires some basic requirements.
Honorable Dr. A P J Abdul Kalam… you call him a puppet? He was the leading scientist… he lead india in to development of home grown missile defense and offense system… Say no bad for him.
Compare your nuclear scientist against him.. you put him in jail yourself. whole nation of pakistan left him.
whole nation of india – hindus and muslims together – loves Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam.
Hi ,
If ownership of best weapons guarantee sucess . USA would not loose in Vietnam and USSR will not run away from Afganistan .
Mr Ansari seems to be living in a dreamland . Placing someone in a Presidents chair with no excecutive power has been done by many . Indian Muslim constitute at least 16% of Population . Yet less then 2% Police are Muslim even less in Officer ranks . In Indian Armed Forces the situation is less then 1% . There are ore christian in Indian Armed forces then Muslim . Please do not deny the facts ,
My family originates from Indian Punjab and in Nov 2005 I went with my father back to India at the invitation of Indian Govertment . I saw at first hand the situation of Indian muslim .
As re Nuclear weapons . Whenever these will be used in Subcontinenet . Both paties will loose .
Wake up . mY muslim brother . Analyse what you have lost since 1857 . I have . Then you will know your friends .
Haider
Haider,
First you should mean your country higher then your religion. Then put comment in this blog.
OK beta?
So leave in limits created by you.
ha shalin how are you bata.what are you doing in this blog han,
U Pakis answer that since the formation of ur country, has a minority ever lead ur country? talking about ****in opportunities. As per Ahmed, there are few movies where muslims are shown on the other side of the line but thats business and considering the facts, there are many more movies where we both have a strong hold in relationship. But thats between us in india. U guys mind ur own f***in business and when u say that forces aren’t a big deal and more important is courage, then we have the answer for that. Remember 1971 and 1999. lol….this mean that we have more courage that u s****es.
ur date is wrong
brother i m sorry if something wrong against our muslim brothers in punjab (india) is happening . i m still a kid oneday i ll grow up and see to it that u can com e back to india with peace
Haider,
Let me first start by saying majority of indians don’t want a war with pakistan or any other nation. All we want is tremendous development and continuous prosperity and fame of all indians all over the world.
Having said that, how can you even compare long protatracted 10 year conflicts like vietnam and afghanistant with a short all out war between 2 nations. But yes there is a lesson for pakistan in those 2 conflicts, the country with the better economy and better overall development always wins out in the end. All those wars eventually bankrupted USSR while the US kept on growing. Remember the ‘bleed india with a thousand cuts’, well we are the 2nd fastest growing economy with $280 billions in foreign reserve, while pakistan is getting bailed out, first by IMF and now the $5 billion aid package from friendly countries, to avoid going bankrupt. Good luck getting your country back from the Taliban.
Well said SDP….
Haider,
I am adding a few more things here,
1). World is dying becoz of global meltdown but India has least impact of it. On the other hand Pakistan is asking for US aid like always.
2). India has offered to fill in the IMF reserves while pakistan is seeking help from IMF again. Indirectly India is bailing out pakistan this time.
3). There are four indians in world’s top 10 richest guys how many pakis are there??
4). But despite of our super sound conditions we dont want war and violence in our continent. We want total peace and harmony. We have build this India without any other country’s help. Today we have supercomputers (PARAM), latest technologies etc and all are MADE IN INDIA. Whatever we do, we do at our own.
No country will help Pakistan in a long run. Will China and Korea do?? Just think about US. America was the closest ally of pakistan till few years back. Now what America is doing with pakistan ?? And why not, if you are taking their advantages then why wouldnt they??
Pakistan should try to stand on its feet first.
Hi All,
Its the people who are ready to mingle and the political parties in India and Pakistan are the barking dogs who corrupt the minds or individuals. I have seen Muslims visiting Hindu families and celebrating festivals together which do not happen in Pakistan. Even Muslims are not spared in Pakistan as they have to obey the sharia(a strict law) which has no human values and freedom to live happily. We embrace all the Muslim families that cross over border with happy heart.
you talk about shariya
do you read it thoroughly
no, you are blaming on Islam
there are very much freedom in Islam but with limits to each others
Islam is the huge religion of the world and no any religion can stand parallel in front of it because of its strong foundations.
and thats why passing hundred of year the holy book Quran majid exits in world with no any changes till to 1400 years ago
all limitations are implemented by the Allah not by humans
in Islam, woman has so much respect but unfortunately some non-Muslims and Some Muslims are distorting this image.
Allah says heaven is in under your mothers foot and sister in any home is blessing form Allah. But some illiterate persons are representing bad image of this shariya
my request is that please before and criticism you should read Islam and your religions
A web site you can visit for this
http://www.dawateislami.net
first of all Sabko Ram Ram
Bhai jan main endglosh nahi janta lekin kuch kahana chahata hukoi
koi bhi muslim ye batade ki quran kisne likhi he. Allaha ne ya
ya Mohamamd sahahib ne, waise jahatak maine padha he
mohamamd sahib to padelikhe hi nahi the, phir kisne likhi
kuch kahate he ki Gabrila ne mohamamd sahib ko Quran sunai
thi ……..lekin Quran uske turant bad nahi likhi…
Quran kuch sal bad likhi…..kaya koi bata sakta he ki itne d
dino tak mohamamd sahib ne quran kaise yaad rakhi, jabki
pahale koi printing press ya computer nahi tha.
bas bhai jan iska answer dedo
Hello Mr Haider,
US and USSR lost because they thought to suppress a nation as a whole, they thought of acheiving success with just Military Might, US or USSR cannot use nuclear weapon on Vietnam or Afganistan.
But Pakistan will use nuke on India and India will use the Nuke on Pakistan….. If Pakistan uses all nuclear weapons on India….. It cannot destroy the whole Nation, But India can destroy the whole Pakistan.
Your statement “Let us tain our soldiers better and give more space to our officers with more imaganative strategies.” shows how ignorant you are.
Yes I am dreaming…… My dream will not come in my sleep, It is my dream which keeps me awake for me to work instead of sleeping.
I like to remind you that Abdul Kalam is the head of the Missile development programme, and it is the first and foremost programme in which the nation’s security is at stake. If India is ready to give that portfolio to a Musim, that shows how it trusts them.
What about your comment on Azharuddin, He is a MP, more than that a Captain of Indian cricket team, Can a Hindu or a Sikh can play for pakistan as a substitute player?
Can a Hindu or Sikh become atleast a municipal head.
Who told you the statistics about the Indian Police and Army? Ok let it be true….. India have the second largest Army in the world…. 1% of it is a huge number. Do Pakistan have 1 Sikh Solider or a 1 christian in PA.
Now you don’t deny the fact.
Atlease my government invited you….. If Indian government invited you then your father must be a good Person, You are so much worried about the muslims right, come to India and do some help to Muslims, say after some 5 years when you return to Pakistan if you have the same mentality… I accept…. Without knowing anything and seeing things with pre-occupation of mind will only tend to see good things as bad. The situation of Indian Hindu is as bad as Indian Muslim.
We will not lose…… Pakistan cannot destroy the whole India…… even if they can we have the NRI’s who live around the world, They will build the nation, The bitter part Pakistan cannot see that.
We are not war mongering, I consider Pakistani’s as my brother, You too as my brother, I dont mind about 1857…… There is a misconception that Muslims as terrorist, Muslims according the great Allah should live in peace and harmony…… If you want to give a certificate to me only if I kill my Hindu friend….. then according to you, I am not a muslim.
Because I trust my friend equal my brother, I am not what I am today without my friends.
Pakistan can dream to seperate the Hindu-Muslim unity, it is like sending a Satellite into Sun’s Core tomorrow and return with zero damage.
If you can acheive that tomorrow… i.e 23 May 2009, then you can seperate Indian Muslims from India.
As Flamba said ‘Muslims visiting Hindu families and celebrating festivals together’
India need not ditch you…. You have your own thumb to blind your eye…. I mean the taliban
hey man how r u,
thumbs up,why u waste your time on these sick people.these pakis cannot understand anything out of religion.they are sick due to their surronding, they always want a reason to fight under the name of religion and try to undermine people of muslim religion in india.how one can imagine about people who have their houses made of mud and cowdung,holding AK-47,s and their kids playing with empty magzines to think of peace and development. these minds are completely been breeded with hate and thats why they are ready to fight with anybody under the name of religion(which their trainers or false gurus brainwash).our world is entirely different from their world. thoughtful and liberal.they are jealous about our country and its development which is the root cause and the real truth.as saying goes neighbours who r jealous of u,should be there around u so that u prosper more.they try all sorts of tricks and oneday fall under your feet. these pakistanis have no history of any particular international achievements compared to indians and cannot have unless the mindset is to change.yes they have achievements which have gained international acknowledgement like raising terrorists and troubling neighbours. look how the talibans are troubling them today,letting them no time to wash dust off their faces.do you think these illiterate jackasses like talibans to stay quiet even after the whole scenario cools off. no ,these devils will find reasons to fight and fight for an unknown fantasies in the name of religion, only to see the poor masses to fear them.damn such people and ignore them my friend.or else they will try to suggest you how always they are right and true.i personally believe that human being has to get out of this religion mask and realise who is really good maybe he belongs to any religion ,creed or caste.this what god of all religions must be telling us,but we like sheeps are moving like dumbs totally ignorant what is true.
Dear friends,
as u people know that Histroy repeats it self.
the northern areas of subcontinent,i.e. Afganistan,Pushtons and Turks,Tajiks are the marshal races. they will eventually repeat their fore father history.
the western world is intellegent enough. they had done in researches and will known about the future of India.
If USA and NATO remain within their boundaries the afghans and The turk blood nothern races will eat up all india like “Molee Gajar”
Thats why Americans are so cofuse .seeing a few hunderd talibans their facing insomnia.
ya great joke,believe in facts rather than researchers, the problem is u cannot think of peace and harmony (which u even cannot desire and deserve).let the day come u will find yourself nowhere to watch your silly,self built dreams. poor mad lad.u carry a lot of misconception about the indian mentality it seems.let the time arrive….reaally i wish and even u will see it. till that time brush your weapon.
Zahid…. Good Joke.
I really enjoyed it….. Please crack more Jokes.
rakash how funny you are
and it will become the reason of india seperation into lot of parts
because you are not serious but pakistanies are.
so take it easy and watch that in how many parts india divided
I have seen in a lot of forums that pakistani muslims are always trying to befriended with indian muslims at the cost of their hindu friends.
I dont know what is making them even to think like this. Hello paki guys please stop dreaming. Why cant you understand that any indian muslim cant leave his years old hindu friend after reading ur advisory post. Why cant you see us united.
Do something for ur country rather than involving in unnecesary activities. Even we want a healthy neighbourhood. Protect ur country from taliban, increase literacy rate, develop infrastructure.
@Zahid :
We will see them when they come to eat us like mooli gaajar. But man right now they are eating you. Ohh sorry i forgot that u guys simply luv to live in ignorance always.
oh man i am tired of this same old crap about india and pakistan! come on guys give that country chance.. they have been told a great lie since their inception that they will be an islamic republic by none other than their own so called QUAID-E-AZAM. can u believe that??? i mean here is a guy who drinks, eats PORK, has affairs with women and then talks abt creating an islamic nation!!! they consider CHINA as their greatest friend without realising the fact that it was china who turned their backs on them during 1971 war!! i think the pakis are plain stupid to consider them as friends. . the country is begging(literally) for survival,let them be.. they are still living in a delusion from which no one could awaken em.. only time will tell what would happen of that country..
Mr Neil.
It seems you have a very poor grasp of South Asian history.
In the beginning Mr Jinnah never wanted an independent Pakistan. He merely wanted a guarantee that after the British left India the Muslims should have an equal power in the ruling Congress party to which was very loyal.He also wanted to make sure that Muslims were no way going to be discriminated and oppressed by Hindu hegemony that was made quite obvious by the irresponsible utterances of the religious minded Hindu bigoted leader s who vowed to ’show the Muslims a lesson after the British left’.Jinnah till the last minute argued for a federation state inside the sub-continent. But the then leader mr nehru did not seem to quite understand the powerfulness of the legacy of Muslim rule nor the unique culture and religion of the Muslims of India. His response was subtle form of insult to Jinnah giving the latter’s plea no importance. Jinnah knew the danger of this attitude and so demanded Pakistan with determined fierceness. To him it was ‘now or never’as Jinnah feared that Muslim identity in the sub-continent would be lost forever. After it was a thousand year-old legacy rich in tradition and culture.If you look at the condition of Muslims in India today guess Jinnah was right.Unfortunately he died three months after partition and Pakistan became a toy in the hands of unscrupulous leaders who did not understand the value of this precious gift. In the words of Stanley Wolpert British Historian: “Few individuals alter the course of history. Fewer still modify the map of the world.Hardly anyone can be credited with a nation state. Mohammed Ali Jinnah did all three.”
So do not discredit this political genius with idle criticism.As for the reports of Jinnah eating pork and drinking wine these are wildly fabricated by his enemies to discredit this great man. He lived in England half of his life. Being a barrister he must have moved with very high circles. So drinking sometimes becomes a social neccesity. Having affairs with women would only prove his romantic attitude.It is not a crime.Eating pork is out of the question. No Muslim would dare to do it.
There have been Muslims who chose to put on a pious front but nobody really cared for the welfare of their community. Here is a man who cared.
Dear Rezan,
I respect your historical knowledge but can you answer the fact that how it can be possible about 50-50 with having proportion 20-80%?
At the time of independence around 70-80% were non-Muslim and only 20-30% were Muslim population. Now if Nehru would agree about 50-50% then it would be insult of democracy as well as that 80% population to make happy 30% Muslim population.
Nehru just wanted to give rights in democratic ways. He never agreed about Muslims should not enter in services or government projects.
I agree with the fact that Jinnah was a genius but you tell me if there are two groups having 20 and 80 players then definitely anything will be divided in 20-80% in which every one will get equal amount if you believe in democracy. But if one team of 20 guys argues that they want 50% of substance then what other 80 guys will do? This was a simple calculation which Jinna didn’t understood.
India never prevented any Muslim to enter in their services as well as provides proper necessary quota in which no other person can enter except Muslim. Can your country do this? Can your country give reservation to Christians and Hindus in your government services specially in Army, Intelligence, Nuclear reactors???? Answer is NO!! Because you don’t believe them.
I recommend just believe in each other, believe in us and let us believe in you. We all will grow as we never grew before.
Good post swami…
Im a muslim and an Indian… so what? so is Shahrukh khan and so was the first Education minister of the united republic of India!
The idea that “Indian’s” who are muslims will work on pakistans side was the main reason pakistan suffered such a huge blow at Kargil… they thought the local population would side by them… but they dint..
The formation of Bangladesh is the greatest proof that such an ideology does not exist. a muslim can become president of India a bengali muslim can not lead the Islamic republic of pakistan…
well indians r eager to show that they r superior but think over 60 years of life what india got n give their neighbours .tamil nados conflicting in sri lanka .helping the terrorist in balochistan n afghanistan against pakistan .each time india tried to suppress their neighbours.producing nuclear weapons.what is he giving this region.rage?inferiority ?conspirating against pakistan with israel who is the champion of terror.infact indian govt has no rule being democratic n secular.it does not matter if a muslim bcomes a president with no power .did he tried to muslims their rights in india kashmair ahmedabad.they massacre muslims.has india not employed 8 lakh army in kashmir.what it shows india is a cruel country .why shah rukh is attacked by hindu fanatics.have u such things 4m pakistan?
shahzad
You must stop watching tv as well as bogus newspapers. Read newspapers which are authentic. In Shrilanka, LETTEE has been abolished, now afganistan is India’s friend country because he knows the problem of terrorism as they were suffering from Taliban.
Now let’s talk about 8 lac army in Kashmir then tell me if we remove our army from Kashmir will your terrorist not enter in Kashmir? You’ve a couple of terrorist camps and bases and infiltrate terrorist which is confirmed by CIA and other intelligence agencies, what about it? Before pointing on others, just STOP sending terrorist to India otherwise India will have to declare Baluchistan as a free nation.
What i don’t get -
1. Pakis keep talking about India and baluchistan help from india etc. Can some Paki show me how many media reports from indepenent sources show this? While we have plenty of proof that ISI and terorirst link up and training camps Pak runs against india.
2. Do you Paki’s know that in India minority communities have been growing since independence while in Pakistan, its been going down?
3. Do you know that Indians don’t care about Pakistan and we are only interested in our growth and prosperity? We don’t give a damn about what you do…
4. How many hindu leaders in armed services you can tout? How many minority leaders in any field you can talk about?
Come to india – the constitution demand in india equal treatment. do you have that. Shahruk khan, and the other khans in films, azzarduin the indian cricket captain, APJ kalam the president of india, sikh field marshals in our army. folks we are better of in every field, be it researh, space or military.
5. why are you fixated on destroying india. live and let live and go back to your holes
some indians think that their nukes will destroy pakistn.dont forget friend if pakistan is going to use nuke it will indians cities .if india is eager to use its nuke it will destroy its oen country too bcs indian nukes r much powerfull
zahid didnt joke man .its reality .learn something 4m history .indians have never defend invaders,they smashed indians over centuries n ruled over them.indians have been begging 4 life.lgta hy india ko aokat sy ziada mil gea hy
before posting your comments, you should learn english and also when to end the sentence with a fullstop. lol
u hindus forget ur history . u r known as most worst
creature on earth.u cannot compare ur self wid pakistan
.
yes we dont want to be compared to u and degrade us..
bcoz Hindus never utter any foul words abt any other religion..our religious books unlike yours doesnt discriminated on religious lines..
Our religious books says that all should be treated equally,all religious should be respected…
In India you will find many Hindus visiting mosques /dargahs viceversa ..that shows unity and brotherhood of our countrymen
Sun Khan
uddhar ki jamin, uddhar ke paisa, uddhar ke weapons
, uddhar ki tumhari jindgi………sab kuch to tum
hara uddhar ka he …….upper se chalo ko Hindustan
se fight karne…..bhai pahale aapne pero per to
khado ho jao……chalna so sikh lo.
haan india koi aokat se jyada mila hai woh hai tumhari maa aur behano ki chut.
shahzad,
Why are you going much back in history? Just see last 50 years history and you’ll know how India defended themselves from invaders like you as well as see your history also. If you were not full with hate then you must be a good person.
Now if you think that Pakistan can attack on India, I agree with you. Yes of course Pakistan can attack on India but in that case only two condition will be there;
1. Either Pakistan will get Kashmir
2. Or Pakistan will disappear from world map.
First option is not possible for you because for that brain is needed and your history says your brain lies in some where else. You lost Kashmir because your foolish acts. You lost 1965 War because your Foolishness. You lost 1971 and become responsible for raise of Bangladesh because of your intelligent brain.
Think about this.
u know one thing porkis/PAKIS..i ve visited a lot on blogs where India -pak comments are a hit…n u know i common thing with u pakis..u all hav such an inferiority complex that u all dnt hav ne work but to blame India for petty things..
1)u all comments about the situation of Indian muslims…first of all its none of ur business..ok as simple as it is…guys..jus look at the condition of ur country n ur people…lol..ur country’s image in front of international community..just type “international terrorism” in google n as usual pakistan will be linked with all terrorists…go n search the web
2)u knoiw pakis…u never luv ur country…its just Islam…u always fight or argue for Islam rather than ur country i.e pakistan…in this blog itself whole discussion prove me right…its realy pathetic..we indians fight for India n tats it.
3) Now military…u pakis hav jus one answer when it comes to military comparision with india…tat is…our pilots r better…our morale r better…n all sort of bullshit…ok so u will fight us with few unproven junks chinese jets n tanks,few sercond hand mirages, n few late model f-16’s…2 agosta subs which even france had retired from its navy…lol..lol..lol..n u guys boast about it saying our JF-17’s r the best,our al-khalids r world beaters,our F-16’s r better than f-22’s…lololol
3)u all dont hav ne work…so just wasting time by trying to prove urself superiority….simply pathetic..go and do something useful for ur country pakis…lol..ur allah bless u.
if u r saying about AUKAT, then turn your aukats like us atleast and do some progress and come to smash us and u will see your daydreams into nightmares. you silly fellow,we will show the worsrt day in history , which will never repeat again.
wow you guys are so full of hate.do you just eat sleep and drink hate in pakistan.you talk about giving and taking just answer a simple question in all these 60 years what constructive work had you all or your country
had given this world except terror.guys have a break whether the puppets
nurished by your government blast bombs in any part of the world including india it kills humans cant you see you are killing your own kind and justifying it,and stop boosting that india is spreding terror in your country,your own president had admitted that your intelligence is behind nourishing of so called mujhayadin(or freedom fighter as they call themselves)someone should ask them from what hate or peace.
if you all want to learn from history than try to see the outcome the devastation it produces its easy to talk about war sitting infront of a pc.no war lord in the whole history has gain nothing except corpses.
you guys are disgusting you not have corrupted yourself but have corrupted the name of your own community.its your and people like you whose deeds price is paid by the innocent people of your own community
dont you have heard of the third law of newton the more terror you produce the same will be come on innocent people of your community in every part of the world.
and were india is considered turn the all pages of history every page will tell you we know and respect our boundaries we never go peeping but can defend our with pride,if u talk about facts our army penetrated till lahore if we believe in capturing than bangladesh and lahore would be a part of india but is it..the lone attacker arrested in mumbai attack was just 16yr old what a country are u were u give bombs in hands of a child instead of books or choclates and u still dare call yourself humans.
you all are so obssesed with hate that nothing you can notice in your surrounding the terrorist your country created killed your own beloved
benezir bhutto and implemented saria in your own borders “beating a woman in public” what a same to you all women are respected all over the world we indian hindu workship women as our godess and you beat them in public and justify it with your sacred quran.you all are not worthy of even reading that sacred book.
how dare you compare yourself in any angle with us there is nothing to compare you can’t compare an animal with humans.and stop boosting about your nukes its not a child gossip to fire nukes you are more afraid of the outcome rather than us.
you talk about secular india there are more than dozens of religion in india and every religion has a representative in our parliament how many do u have,you paki muslims cant even live in harmony among yourself you fight in the name of sia and sunni.after partition every muslim who went to pakistan is called muhazir till to date but we accepted them as our brothers and sisters.
first try to be human and then talk about facts….
I am from India and live in southern city Hyderabad. My Hindu friends invite me to attend their festivals. Most importantly I cannot afford missing Diwali. They but moe crackers because they know I am gonna fire them all. All my Hindu friends are invited to my house during Ramzan and they perter me to sere them Biriyani and Paaya and Haleem ofcource. My dear Paki bros, please be assured we are very happy here and we don’t need your care/sympathy. You better clean your backyard before the world’s enemy TALIBAN eats you away.
May God Bless…
aftab if you are happy with these hindos ok fine,we donot care about you,go to hell with these hindos.
So you think you will go to heaven?
asad don’t be emotional
if aftab is wants to live with hindus let him live bcz india wants to missguided all the muslims but when aftan will know this thing he will one of them who will demand dependence and will launch revolution against indian hindus bcz it is said that history rivive itself like before the times of 1947 sepration of paksitan from hindus
asad is inocent and he will not know about the conspircy against muslims
most of the muslims are being used by hindus. but it will not countinou in long time and even sikhs will Make their country in name of “Khalistan”.
hindus don’t want to see muslims excle and thats why they burn lot of muslims town and villages in gujrat and show muslims as a terrorists in their films and show that how muslims feel aggression against any religion but in islam peace is your religion and inshallah one revolution will start in india which capture all india but preach them and make muslims there like muhammad bin qasim have done in 712
aftab…im realy proud of u…muslims like u are the pride of India…brother im proud of living amonst muslims brothers like u..
Dear Rakesh,
Plz study subcontinet history.if u can’t do this then I will show u the recent event which u might not forgot.
in the Kargil war Pakistani forces killed indians like the muncipalicty of a city kills dogs and cleans rubish.
i met a soldier who was at a sector in kargil war he said that i myself killed more than hundards of indians.he said that indians are very poor in mountain battles.he said that they were enjoying to exercise killing indin army persons.
when USA got all the situation Clinton pressurized pakistani govt.and warnd not to use air force and forced to withdraw . pakistani solders were killed while withdrawing from peaks.
It was not the indians who forced pakistanis to withdraw but It was the international community and masters of Indian like USA Russia and UK,Germany,France which made pakistani forces to withdraw from kargil heights.
Here is a Qoute ” History repeats it self”
Zahid….. Ha ha ha…. I cannot control myself. you are good in craking very good Jokes…..
Let us Consider the History…
1. In 1948 Pakistan wowed to liberate Kashmir from Indian Rule, I hope Kashmir is with Indian Rule now. That means Pakistan have not succeeded.
2. In 1965, PA came into India in the second attempt, I dont think that they succeeded in having Kashmir in their hands.
3. In 1971 war, I hope India is the aggressor, I hope there is a country called ‘Bangladesh’ created… I hope it is the first attempt by India and in the first Attempt India succeeded.
If you think India failed in 1971 war then there must be no Bangladesh now.
4. India took over Siachen…. PA tried to re-take it… I hope Siachen is in Indian Control.
5. In 1999, Pakistan came with a sound mind to occupy the Kargil Heights, I hope none of the peaks is in pakistan’s control.
In mountain warefare, Those who sits atop will be having much more advantage than those who fight from the plains.
http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/research/theses/Acosta03.pdf
Please read the thesis by an American Navy person.
Here are Indian mistakes…
1. No Intelligence input on PA occupation of Indian Posts…. Pakistan did it so cleverly… Hats of to them on this acheivement.
2. Under estimating the enemy at first.
3. Scale the mountains without any major fire power.
4. Indian Soldiers arrived ill equipped for survival in the harsh Himalayan landscape, much less up to the task of defeating a determined foe atop the heights.
5. IA ego for not asking Indian Air force Help much earlier.
To my knowledge having Kargil mountains in PA hands is much more advantageous than anything that Pakistan could dream of….
Pakistan stopped the war because there was no Aircraft to provide Air support to the troops stationed at the peaks…. because F-16 is the only Aircraft which was in good condition, but the Airforce need it for full scale war, because it is the only aircraft which atleast 50% of the capabilities of Sukoi -30 MKI.
Here is a Quote ” History repeats it self”
ha rakish you miss some thing is’t,
1st: kashmir is a muslim state,majorty of people are muslims and sikh raja sell this state to india but people of kashmir want ilhaq with PAKISTAN,so we takeover half of kashmir from you.how you know better.(success)
2nd:(1965 war) india attack on PAKISTAN and we defand our home land.(success)
3rd:(1971 war) you indians play a role of cowards.you see in 1965 war that you cant defeat PAKISTAN so in 1971 war you put your gun on shoulders of these foolish bangalies.(defeat)
4th: in siachen we stop you on certain point.till then you and we face to face in siachen.(success)
5th:(1999 war) in kargil sector PAKISTAN army cut your main highway to jammu.(jammu leha road) your PM ask to USA to help and they put pressur on PAKISTAN.if USA didnot come in between then thay all see the biggest army surrendering(800,000)in worlds history.()
these are the FACTS.
these are your dreamt facts… Show me proof buddy….
Ha Ha Ha!!! What an Joke!!
Ok Now let me tell you how brilliant you are-
1. Yes of course Kashmir was Muslim majority state but Indian government left the decision on Kashmiri Raja and he chosen to be Independent and India didn’t forced him to be a part of India.
2. Brilliant Pakistani forces then attacked on Kashmir and due to this Kashmiri Raja hadn’t any choice and decided to be an India state to save Kashmir. You were responsible for loosing Kashmir.
3. In 1965 Pakistan attacked in the form of civil militants on Kashmir and India successfully failed your mission. When your dream to get Kashmir seemed failed Pakistan started air strike in Indian field which gave us a reason to start war. Again you brilliant Pakistani were responsible for war.
4. In 1965 Pakistan attacked with highly modern weapons which were incomparable with Indian old and outdated weapon systems but after that also Pakistani couldn’t succeed to defeat India and suffered a heavy loss because of your great mind. Remember Battle of Asal Uttar (Khemkharan).
5. In 1971 You brilliant Pakistani disrespected the election results and didn’t gave their right to form government to Eastern Pakistani leaders. Your this mistake resulted in raise of Bangladesh. As a neighbor country India had to support them and India succeeded because of such you brilliant guys.
6. In 1999 Kargil war you came silently and occupied Kargil sector when Indian forces were not there. This is the proof of your bravery that you occupied that field where nobody were to resist. How brave you are. You were on heights and taking advantages but still you suffered heavy loss because of India fire power and Bo-force guns. If Pakistan could started air strike then it could easily turned into full scale war for which we were waiting.
If you really have such great mind and such a jacal type bravery I’m sure you’ll never get Kashmir still if you try for 2000-3000 years.
Now you occupied Kashmir’s some part because of 1948’s peace pact. You got that part of Kashmir like BHEEEKH.
In short if you have a little dare just attack on India and see the results. I’m sure next generation will read Pakistan in History Books.
you think so because you are not told the facts.you dont study the international reports.1965 and kargul,your army was on shameful defeat and i tell you that our 10000 army is more than enough to defeat your army and your army knows it well.
Ha ha ha ha …. I can’t remain laughing yaar….
The Probaganda that one Pakistan solider is equal to 4 Indian Solidiers led to 1965 war… Can you kindly show that is the International reports?
u won in 1965 war..
wat a joke..
u were made to believe that in 1965 pakistan actually won..
anyways visit the links below..
they are from neutral sources..one is your old ally
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,834413-1,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_war
If you still dont believe it try reading “The Myth of 1965 Victory” by Lieutenant General Mahmood Ahmed Former ISI Chief
And Regarding you meeting a Solider who Killed ‘hundards’(I myself will forget the spelling for “hundred’s”) of ‘indin’ army persons is a very good comedy.
Wiki Pedia Sources say…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_conflict
“Casualties for both sides were heavy. Pakistani claims gave two figures. The figure of 357 soldiers dead was challenged by some Pakistani officials, who claimed that 4,000 Pakistani soldiers were killed in the conflict. Pakistan also confirmed that more than 665 Pakistani troops were wounded and 8 were captured. According to India, Indian losses stand at 527 soldiers killed, 1,363 wounded, and 1 captured.
Pakistan army losses have been difficult to determine, partly because Pakistan has not published an official casualties list. The US Department of State had made an early, partial estimate of close to 700 fatalities. According to numbers stated by Nawaz Sharif there were 4,000+ fatalities. His party Pakistan Muslim League (N) in its “white paper” on the war mentioned that more than 3,000 Mujahideens, officers and soldiers were killed.[123] Another major Pakistani political party, the PPP, also says that “thousands” of soldiers and irregulars died.[124] Indian estimates stand at 1,042 Pakistani soldiers killed.[125] Musharraf, in his hindi version of his memoirs, titled “Agnipath”, differs from all the estimates stating that 357 troops were killed with a further 665 wounded.[5] Apart from General Musharraf’s figure on the number of Pakistanis wounded, the number of people injured in the Pakistan camp is not yet fully known. One Indian Pilot was officially captured during the fighting, while there were eight Pakistani soldiers who were captured during the fighting, and were repatriated on 13 August 1999;”
By this any person with stable mental health will tell that what you told you is nothing but a self-made story…..
Zahid,
Kindly tell me in what ways does Pakistan had surpassed India besides arming the jihadi’s.
Tell me the name of one pakistani National who is a head of a multi-national company?
Tell me how many multi-national companies does Pakistan have?
Kindly read this Article….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1735912.stm
Remember I have provided all Non-Indian sites for reference.
Please back your claims with Non-Pakistan based sites.
ur quoting wikipedia? any one can edit that lol
it is also a common myth that India has more Muslims than Pakistan. Pakistan actually has the world’s second largest Muslim population after Indonesia. Indians love to flaunting this myth but they don’t even check their facts.
Agreed, Muslims seem to play the numbers game, usually exaggerate their numbers. In India they represent 11-12%. Mathematically they would be the third largest, unless Pakistan has larger percentage of minorities (in constant fear)they are not telling us about.
flaunt*
LPJ, if u believe in the game of numbers of muslims in india and pak u better watch this. i hope it ll clear ur doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9JCusfje0
My dear brilliant LPJ,
We cannot simply write something like Pakistan defeted India in no time in Kargil… Or some false information…. Try to do it… It will be changed by Wiki Moderator in no time.
It is not that easy that things will get changed in Wiki. Also are you so dumb to ignore the numbers like [123], [125], [5] in the above text?
Anyway here is the Pakistan link. Read it and get enlighten yourself. I hope you are not a fool say that Rakesh from India have posted this news in Pakistan Tribune….
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?151668
Also a credible source
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/musharraf-now-has-paks-kargil-toll-357/14208/
If you say that Indian Express is wrong in the fact, you can cross check the facts with Musharaf own book and you can sue the Indian Daily…
I am very eager to hear your comment on number of Muslims?
What makes you better if Pakistan has 2nd Largest population in the world…. 2nd largest source of Jihad’s?
An Indian Muslim is more Noble than a Pakistan Muslim. A few links to substantate that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azim_Premji
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiran_Mazumdar
and many more people like Shah-Rukh Khan, Salman Khan and Ahmir Khan.
Can you intelligent people can show anyone who is as Rich or as famous as the above?
If you are some one who eats food with salt, Don’t watch Indian movies, Don’t watch Indian TV Channels.
Indian Muslims are not something you people cannot match in anyway.
nice rakesh . your comments as on 09aug , mind blowing ,
oh! comeon zahid hun+dards … ha ha ha ……..
happy independence day ….15aug..
i proud to be an indian
Dear Indians
plz do not lose tempare.
be cool while facing reallities.
i do not want to hurt u people instead point out the historical facts.
for instance,
Prithivi Raj defeated Ghuouri several times but at the end Ghouri defeated Prithivi forever.
just the same done by the below adventurers.
Baber,Taimour,Lodhees,Ghouri,Gaznaveeds,Abdali,Sharsha souri,
do u accept the above hitorical conqurers?.
u people just mention wars of 1948 and 1971,
It seems that history of subcontinent have been removed from indian slybus at Schools and University levels.
i do not have much time to explain each one historically and to give proofs. I m too busy to explain them.
at the end I m sorry for hurting u people.
I think you need to change the spelling of your name and it must be “Zahil”.
History Books are to read and learn the lesson and Indian has learned them that’s why you didn’t succeed at least once since Pakistan born.
Baber, Taimour, Lodhees, Ghouri etc etc. were invaders and if you were in India at that time they would not leave even you also as they were pirates and it was there business to get money.
If these Looters are your ideal then you’ll find yourself in Jail very soon.
I think history books in India and Pakistan are total junk.
Indis.. dont you agree? Indian history books teach us how “aryans” invaded india and won… bloody fool commi historians.
I am sure paki history has similar blunders.
SO.. point is, let’s not talk history that brits and commis wrote for us. As for last 50 years, we know what happenedd based on where india is and where pak is today.
To all Indian ,
The difference between War and a Battle is simple . You win war and peace follow . A battle is just continues part of a War . The War between India and Pakistan is not over . India needs to defeat Pakistan in order to be a Great Power . Without defeating Pakistan you will be . Your Minsters can go to countries like Tajikistan and sign agreements to Import Electricity Gas , etc from them , agree to build a road from India to Dushanbe ( Tajikistan Capital ) . These will not fulfill without agreement from Pakistan .Unless you plan to build a road from Tajikistan to India via China then through Tibet mountains ranges and then to Nepal and finally entering India North of Delhi .
Our dear neighbors wake up , your leaders are telling you a load of lie . You Media / Movie industry are both working to spread lies . In the movie called “Khuda Gawah ” . The hero Badshah Khan played by Amitab Bachan gets onto his horse and goes to India . How the hell did he do this . Are you people not aware , there is Pakistan in between .
Wake up . Learn to speak and accept the facts .
Haider237, you said: “Wake up . Learn to speak and accept the facts ”
Why don’t you practice and preach.
Facts: India is better than pakistan, much more powerful than pakistan, more developed than pakistan, more Tolerant than pakistan, more enlightened than pakistan. Almost every nation accepts this, of course except pakistan. Compare yourselves to countries like B’desh, Sudan. That is a fairer comparison.
Zahid,
You are really a funny guy…..
Yes Ghori invaded India and muslim Kings ruled India for some couple of centuries. Why? The Indian Kings had no unity amoung them.
And your comparison that Muhammad Ghori defetaed Prithvi Raj Chauhan at so one day Pakistan defeat India… is nothing but your hallucination.
China has been ruled by Mangolian’s for centuries, So does it mean Mangolia will again capture China and rule China for centuries?
The Britishers crushed the Mughal dynasty within no time and where is the Mughal empire now?
So History helps those who make use of the opportunity and act wisely. You concept is absolutely baseless and no educated person will agree.
You told something like the 1971 history of Sub-continent is removed from Indian Syllabus(I will forget the spelling for ‘Syllabus’, Atleast you could have googled) – So tell me what is the Original History?
Does you mean to say Pakistan won the war?
Don’t you have the knowledge of atleast of a Pre-Kinder Garden child level? If Pakistan won the war how come a Country called ‘Bangladesh’ got created?
Kindly hear my advice, Don’t eat too much of meat…. It will allow your brain to think, One of my reletive is as dumb as you, My grand Mother adviced him not to eat too much of meat… It will not allow to you think.
Ok, I work in a Multinational company, I work for 18 hours/day and I also don’t have time to substantiate my thoughts coherently and clearly, Why can you? because there is nothing concrete that you can tell.
Remember we are a Billion, you can’t even beat us in that….
Don’t ever wrestle with a pig. You’ll both get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it.
—Cale Yarborough
Haider237,
You are a fool, a sense less person…. It is crystal clear from your post. I am sorry, I cannot speak with you.
See the economy of India in GDP PPP term. (India in 4th position, Pakistan in 26th position)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
See the economy of India in GDP nominal Term. (India in 12th position, Pakistan in 46th position)
Yes the war is not over…. either Pakistan should survive or India should survive, It is a fight to finish.
Yes is it fight to the finish . Mr Ansari , from your name you seems like a person of Muslim faith . Have you heard or read about Ghazwa tul Hind Hades of our prophet Hazrat Mohammad sw . The hadis clearly states , the Muslim will reconquer Hind again . We Pakistani are Muslim and do beleive in this 100% . You Mr Ansari needs to clear you minds re you love for your Country and your religious belief .
Haider237,
Kindly get yourself admitted to a Mental Hospital, No offence meant.
Mr Ansari I would advise you to refrain from abusive comments . I also know how to be abusive . If you are really a Indian Muslim , you must believe in Islam and the Hadis Nabawai . You do not have to believe me , just believe in Religious scripture . India has been colonized by many nation . The nation to conquer India was British . A Nation living many thousands of miles away . The came by sea and conquered your India . Their numbers were very small may be less then 0.00001 % of your population ..THIS A FACT .
The only country matching your size is China . and you know the Indian army was just hopeless . You can only growl and show your non veg teeth to a smaller nation . You forgotten history in just 60 yrs . You were always enslaved by smaller nation .
Pakistan Zindabad
All tour Rajput , Jats and Brave Shiv Sena were like a pussy cat .
One day Pakistan / Muslim Flag will fly over Lal Qila again . Inshah allah .
Dear Mr. Haider ,
You must know that due to the paki’s divisional policy , the bangladesh , which was the muslim nation devided from pak. Till today you are telling the persons who came from india as Mujahir. What do you think If india becomes a muslim nation will the battle betn. india and pak Finish, no, never, not at all , because of your such mean mentality.
Mr Haider237, I would in turn advice you to refrain from foolish comments, I believe in Islam and its principles, It says
PEACE in every aspect.
NON-VIOLENCE in all conducts.
FREEDOM of expression, belief, etc.
First of all I am a Human Being, then an Indian and then only a Muslim.
Inshah Allah is above all, even above Quaran and Hadis Nabawai. If you believe that something which is written some millions of years before will happen without a change, then why should we do namaz 5 times a day? If I do anything wrong God should punish me, If I am good then God should save me from all problems.
India is a good country, We live in unity in Diversity, Tomorrow we am going to place Garland Lord Ganesha’s Feet(Tomorrow is Ganesha Pooja(A Hindu God))
I purely believe in Allah, He will always help us in all walks of life. Britishers not conquered my nation, It was our nation…. Don’t make statement like you jumped from heaven.
Secondly they have not defeated the Hindu or Christan Empires, instead they have defeated Muslim empires. This is a fact.
We Indians have fought the britishers to get a freedom, you got freedom simply like that for We gave our blood to the mother land, and you simply broke my motherland just like that.
Indian Army, Hopeless? Ha ha ha…. very joking statement, Where were your chinese friends during 1971? Remember 2009 is not 1962, I am not telling that we are a match for China, But we can thraw any agression from China or even US for that matter.
Do you know what is the Trade volume of India and China? Google it… and enlighten you.
We can growl and at EOD we know how to protect our motherland. Don’t equate Pakistan to England…. You are not in anyway equal to them…. You must be knowing how the British “GOVERNMENT” treats the Pakistani’s.
We have the GDP in PPP terms more than that of British now… Pakistan… you should know.
Don’t troll around here… back your claims with proper reasons, I request you to read a post by Rakesh on August 10, 2009 at 15:22 and kindly reply to that.
Why are you taking ‘Rajput , Jats and Brave Shiv Sena’ none of the Indias are advocating for them.
“One day Pakistan / Muslim Flag will fly over Lal Qila again.” If Pakistan wishes this on a peaceful country, then ‘Pakistan will be a history, there will be no country called Pakistan in world map, It will be divided into Balochistan, Punjabistan, Sindistan’. Inshah Allah.
Read about the state of Pakistan
http://www.twq.com/02summer/cohen.pdf
And a topic about India.
http://www.twq.com/09july/docs/09jul_Schaffer.pdf
Dear Mr Ansari ,
First let me say ” Ramazan Mubarik to you ” A Muslim is a Muslim first then part of an Nation / linguistic group . To be a Muslim you me and all Muslim have to be Muslim first then Indian , Pakistani , Chinese or Iranian .
Pakistan was formed after peoples living in the area Voted for Pakistan . The remaining part of British India become India / Bharat . No one asked them if rest of the Nations of Subcontinent wished to be Independent of part of Safron Clad India State . With so many Insurgencies and Freedom movement Jammu & Kashmir , Assam and many more . If you so sure of their loyalty with Indian Union , why not let me decide in a free vote .I have many Tamil friend in UK . Many on them wish to be an Independent Country . A a matter of fact there was an Tamil Naidu Independent movement until mid sixties .
Surely Assam , Kashmir belongs to the Native of these land before belonging to any other whether India or Pakistan .
In 1971 there was a Civil war in Pakistan and the Ruling class in West Pakistan is to blame . India being an enemy took advantage . We in Pakistan were humiliated and form ever we will be reminded . I believe in saying and accepting the truth . Others will help only when you can help yourself . If you follow international cricket . You will when Pakistan is playing against any country other then Bangladesh , The Bangladeshi support Pakistan . May be there is still hope ( Inshahallah ).
India best friend also did not came to its assistance in 1962 India China war . When India was defeated by the Chinese .
You keep on mention GDP . If this was a criteria for remaining and independent country USSR should still be here . India ws one of the richest country few hundred years ago a country poorer then India and with a very very small population conquered it .
When Muslim conquered India , less then 2% were Muslim in whole of the area stretching from Afghanistan to Burma . It just prove size does not matter , it is the quality rule not quantity .
Pakistan flag will fly on Lal Qila because you Indian are so confident that you high GDP and large population will guarantee success . This false believe will push you guys to attack Pakistan . We Pakistani have no where else to go and then we will show you real result . Dilli door nakeen , just 200 km . In past your former rulers made same mistakes and the ancestors of person now part of Pakistan met your forefathers in Panipat . And you do know what happen . INDIA LOST .
Pakistan Zindabad
”Ramazan Mubarik to you”
I am a Human Being, then an Indian, and then a Muslim. No change in this Order… Thank you.
Bharath is a King ruled India some hundereds of years before… This is in no way releted to Hindu or religion. We fought for the freedom by shedding our blood and you simply voted to become a seperate nation… We don’t know to be clever like you.
I am a Tamil, don’t tell me fairy tales, My ancestors are living in the TamilNadu for centuries… And if someone in a group of 10 or 20 join… that does not mean a freedom struggle.
Meanwhile tell your Tamil friend that he/she should not wish for a seperate nation by sitting in UK…. So backoff your baseless claims. And the state is called ‘Tamil Nadu’ not ‘Tamil Naidu’.
Kashmir and Assam belong to the people of India, The natives are important than the rest…. That does not mean I cannot go and earn a living in Assam or J&K.
The west pakistani soliders Raped the east Pakistan women, looted and destroyed the East Pakistan, So East Pakistan(Bangladesh) should support West Pakistan cricket team. Good for Bangladesh.
I hope India followed ‘Non-Alignment’ policy, We are not formed defence pact with anyone… Moreover Indian Army did not surrender to Chinese Army, And we lost some land, Significantly much, much less to the proportion of 1971. India needed it, more to that Nehru needed it… for trusting the Chinese beyond doubt.
You don’t understand any economics… 1700 is not 2009. In 1700 if a country is rich, they will not spend propotiontely in Defence. USSR collaped only after it gone bankrupt…. Communism is a very good theory in Papers and Books but not in actual practice.
The British have not conqured India by force but by brain… divide and rule Policy worked best for them at that period of time, But I really thank the Britishers, Because only after them, the country improved a lot.
Again, Being a Muslim does not give us any advantage over a Hindu or a Christian or a Jew. The one which is possible in 1700 is not possible in 2000, The one which is possible in 2000 is not possible in 2100. Simple theory.
We will not burn other countries flag, or defrade other countries sentiment… Pakistan flag may fly in RED FORT, as a friendly country flag with Indian flag… not simply like that.
Large populate will never give success…. A very small roman empire have defeated the mighty Pershian empire in no time but it is with cutting edge equipments and determined heart will win wars.
India will never attack Pakistan, but if you annoy us like 26/11 then we will not attack Pakistan, We will destroy Pakistan.
You are proving again and again that you are carried too much by the past. Please read my post on ‘August 20, 2009 at 21:07′ and enlighten yourself.
Kashmir is an Integrated part of India, no change in that, and India is a peace loving nation. It does not mean we are cowards…
Again all the time you are trying befriend me only because I am a Muslim, I like to remind you that you can befriend an Indian… Not a great deal but not a Muslim.
@ Mohammad Ansari – I am impressed you took time, energy and went to great length to write about your views — This shows how important this site to you , that you went through the articles and write your opinion about it, thanks to Haqqeqat.org….
I am glad you have intoduced yourself , and the order show your priorities in life and this offcourse impacts your thinking and lifestyle. From reading your comments, it is apparent you are delusional in thinking you are safe in India, in your opinion you may be protected as you have changed your identity and allowed yourself to be “mingled” and “mixed” by the current wave of so-called Nationalism in Singh’s regime (wait till you get Bharatiya patry, then we will know your sate of mind, unless you are still delusional).. you are up to the point where you have no identity, no saying, no respect… nothing… due to the fact , the order of priorities selected by you. You are the one who probably do not know whats happening to Muslims in your country… I am not saying things are perfect in Pakistan, but I am talking to you, directly … you are among many muslims who dont know who they are… these so-called muslims are everywhere, Pakistan, India, USA, Saudi Arabia , etc… they change the tone of their life by judging the weather …they are nothing, no one …
@Kouser Izhar – First of all I thank you for speaking somewhat in a geninune way.
Let me answer your point one by one.
No one is safe in this world, not even a person in US is 100% safe, Today I am in office, there is no guarentee that I will surely come to office tomorrow, I may meet with an Accident, I may fall ill due to H1N1, and there may be a earth quake in the place I live…. There is no guarentee to life… hope the same is for you too.
I will advice you one thing, Kindly take it if your heart tells that I am not wrong, Please have some tolerence, never be intolerent to simple things… I work in a team where everyone is having different mother tongue, Religion, Race and country, We are working together only because we are tolerent, No one will hurt others feeling or belief, We work together, we acheive, we excel and we succeed together. I don’t think that Quaran or any other book says that I should not be “mingled” and “mixed” with others.
I live in a state which is ruled by BJP, I don’t think I am facing anything ackward or bad… I am not oppressed in anyway, My community is also having reservations in government jobs, My reletives are working in Goverment Offices, one of my very distant reletive is a Member of Parliment. There may be one or two Serious incidents happening here and there.. It happens in Pakistan, Also India is no exception.
My Identity – I am a Human Being, I am an Indian, I am a Muslim, I am a Tamil speaking person… Apart from this I dont know what special Identity that I should have.
My Saying – United we stand.
My Respect – Hum… that depends on who each individual acts… If I am sleeping all the time in home and dont earn anything, who will respect me?
I hope I have everything in life… How can you say that I have nothing?
Look, People in this world are suffering, It is not the Muslims alone suffer. You are speaking something like all Indian Hindus are living like Prince of the counrty and all muslims are living like slaves living in poverty…. and that is not the case.
I am not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, My father suffered a lot, There have been days when he was starving for the whole day… No one came to feed him, His friends helped him at times (That Includes Hindu friends also)
Yesterday we in our company donated 10,000 US $ to a orphanage in my city, note that is our hard earned money, not the money we got from aid from US… FYI we don’t beg for Aid all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zTnARCBi3c
the video shows it all … mmust watch ..
@ Ansaari Sahib and friends – Thanks for all the ideas, views and clarifying our beliefs, and it is great you and friends are doing good for the people in need. I think we all agree with the fact that whenever we have critical crisis, our sense of unity and compassionate nature come in play. We become humble and kind towards others and we outnumber others in charitable donations & forget our differences. However, the opposite attributes (racism, prejudice, greed, oppressive trait) come in play when we are divided into tribes, different ethnicities and “nationalism”. Why is that? This is OK and civilized nations do that due to our collective similarities and differences as Allah has made us in tribes and made different boundaries (countries). As long as we honor each other’s territories and respect their differences. I guess we all tend to blame others and believe we are true and our views should be listened. War and weapons: It saddens to see grief and destruction of lives and properties and civilization and the negative aftereffects it can carry over for years and decades to come. What do we gain from wars and weapons? Everyone knows the answer. The only industry that will benefit is the weapons industry.. Do we know which industry owns United States? You got it.. it is the weapons industry… and this is definitely not in the interest of Weapons industry/ USA to have peace in the world… who will buy their weapons if all nations are living happily among each other.
There are few people in this world who understand the “conspiracy theory” and many will go with the flow… Who will benefit from India-Pakistan conflict? USA , and Israel and imperialist powers off course. It is not only India, Pakistan issues… but we have desperate war situation in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Sovereignty of Pakistan is threatened by Afghan war, and drone attacks. True Muslims are also human beings and humanity cannot see sufferings… This is a time of crisis and humanity is inviting us all to come together and be united so we can all fight wars enforced upon us.
Hmmm. Interesting discussion.I will try my best to be neutral but forgive me if my emotions betray me.First of all Muslims of India and Pakistan are fundamentally the same people. But again there is a difference.Let me say that Muslims of North India and Pakistan are fundamentally the same people.The Muslims of the South are good Muslims but the reason why they do not seem to understand the feelings of the Pakistani Muslim is the disparity of culture and language.Culture and language is sometimes more powerful than a belief in a religion itself.This was proved in the case of the 1971 war.
Also a major point is that South Indian Muslims were never affected by the partition of India as the North Indian Muslims were.They felt orphaned.A desperate political decision turned them into aliens in their own country.
Language brought the Hindu and the Muslim together in the South and mutual respect was given to each others’ religious beliefs. Also the South has a peculiar sense of tolerance unseen in the northern parts of India.This passivity brought about a strange and interesting sense of communal harmony.In the north however there is a sense of extreme intolerance by Hindus against the Muslims who live in abject poverty caused by social inequality,discrimination,prejudice and hate. This is a stark reality. Old Delhi, once a place of Mughal grandeur or Muslim glory is today a mere legacy of this magnificence. The once proud Muslims live in abysmal poverty as second class citizens abandoned by a so-called democratic Government.The almost negligible percentage of Muslims who are in politics do not hold any power nor actually care about their community. They are merely put into power to give a false image to the world that Muslims are doing well in India.This is the cunning Hindu mind.
The festering sores of partition are yet to heal.National Hindu parties like BJP/RSS have come to the fore since a quarter century and their hidden agenda is to make it a Hindu India or Hindutva society where Muslims will have no place unless probably if they reverted back to ‘their original religion’. This was made very clear by powerful political leaders during the BJP rule in India.BJP is a fascist party whose agenda is based n religious bigotry and communal hate. They are interlinked with other fraternal orgnaisations like RSs, Bajrangdal who openly advocate violence,intimidation and murder against Muslims of India.The Gujarat Genocide was a manifestation of this hate-filled policy. The advocate of this genocide Mr Modi of Gujarat is still alive and at large with his popularity and power increasing day by day.So much for Indian democracy that cannot even arrest and prosecute a criminal political leader.In this respect Pakistan is far honest and truthful.Just look at the number of people arrested in Pakistan
What was peculiar about the Gujarat massacres of Muslims was that it was so efficiently organised Israeli style. The way the women were brutally raped ,their stomachs opened with ‘trishuls’ (forked iron spear like instrument that nationalist Hindus carry)old men hacked to death and children as young as six burnt alive with kerosene poured on them. All this was supposed to be for the revenge of some ‘karsevaks’ burnt to death in a railway bogey by Muslims. After a year of investigation and research this was proved to be an accident! An excuse was just needed. This gujarat riot is just a tip of the iceberg yet to come and a warning for people like Ansari who is so proud to be an Indian first and a Muslim next. I would like to tell people like him that just because he is comfortable it does not mean that others are too. If you a true Muslim you have to feel for the Ummah. If you standing under the cool shade of a tree it does not mean that the sufferings of the people in the scorched heat should be ignored.
Mr Ansari . The Hindu society especially in the north is a racist society. A fact that is exposed by their brutal and cruel caste system. So how can you say it is a just system. The only just system is in Islam in which we have learnt according to the holy Prophet (MPUH) who said:’No Arab is superior to a non-Arab;no non-Arab is superior to an Arab.’ The point made was the emphasis on Human equality. Unfortunately Muslims violated this noble message. In the name of Islam they killed one another. A clear example of this is in Pakistan itself as we all saw in the early 90’s during the ethnic civil war in Karachi where army generals encouraged by the then political leaders took the power into their hands by ruthlessly massacring a whole generation of so called ‘Mohajirs’.Ironically these were the sons of the very people who fought with their lives to create Pakistan for the benefit of the Muslims of India after partition.’Do not kill one another as this is an unforgivable sin and a sin no greater than this’ said the holy Prophet (mpuh) Pakistanis sinned not once but twice and today they are paying the price. They did not learn from their fatal mistake of 1971.
Based on racial superiority,materialistic greed and selfish interests Pakistan a land won miraculously owing to the astuteness and political genius of the Quaid-e-Azam who rightfully feared Hindu hegemony after independence from the British, descended into a nation of social inequality,corruption,illiteracy and injustice being controlled by selfish landlords and an army that still looked up to their western masters for guidance and inspiration. Their minds still being colonised ,the Pakistan ruling elite is leading this precious gift of a country into a political quagmire. Their foolish trust in the Western Governments has brought nothing but death and destruction for ordinary Pakistanis as can be observed by the systematic killing of innocent Pakistani and Afghani civilians by CIA operated US drones apart from secret arrests and illegal detentions and extraditions of its citizens by the Pakistani Government itself.
Now one even hears that ‘Blackwater’ the notorious private army conceived by the criminal ex-president Mr Bush is slowly making inroads into the northern regions of Pakistan probably just to play havoc and sow destruction as it did in Iraq.
Already talks are on the way of expanding the US embassy in Islamabad in a massive way the intentions of which are frighteningly obvious and justifiably questionable. Pakistan is unwarily slipping into the arms of the devil.The leaders have obviously not learnt the lessons of Iraq. Inadvertently the Pakistan Government is working against the interests of the security of Pakistan itself.It has bartered away its freedom by greedily accepting the US dollar at any cost.
India is no way better. The present Government of India has secretly sold India to the US. India has also adopted all the bad influences of the West. Vulgarity, alcohol,pornography, homosexuality,rash materialistic pursuit and abandonment of their rich family and social traditions all prompted by the garish Bollywood films helped by Zionist financiers of the West to ruin a once decent society.To the Indian mind anything that the West thinks or does is the best and has to be imitated. This is the result of years long colonisation. A slave always fears and admires his master without caring whether the master is right or wrong.
India’s new found friendship with the terrorist state of Israel will eventually show the consequences in the near future by blowing itself in her face.
India, politically a once proud fiercely independent nation has today become a vassal state of the US.
The US in the meanwhile is probably laughing at both India and Pakistan as history seems to repeat itself in the sub-continent.
What is unforgivable at this stage is India’s shameless complicity with the US and Israel by using Afghanistan against Pakistan.India is actually helping the US to take control of Afghanistan while at the same time pretending to be a great friend of the Afghani people.
In conclusion one can safely assume that there is more hatred for Pakistan by Indians than vice versa.This statement can be enhanced by the fact that India’s weapons are mostly of an offensive nature while those of Pakistan are mostly defensive!
What Pakistan lacks is a good and honest leadership.
What India’s Hindus need is good education about the Universality of Islam and their consciousness of the hollow truth of democracy in their country. Islam is not some unwanted branch of Hinduism as they may think but a Universal religion followed by 1.5 billion people in almost every county of the world.The Muslim politicians in India should prove themselves to be a little more masculine and truthful to their faith instead of being merely opportunistic and apologetic most sadly.They should protest unceasingly and vehemently against atrocities against Muslims sanctioned by the State itself. They should protest against army,police and para-military atrocities against the women and children of Kashmir. Villages are ransacked and women raped in the name of fighting against terrorism. Even old women are not spared.These are the shocking facts that the world as well as the Indians must know. India’s elusive political leaders had reneged on their promise for a plebiscite on Kashmir which they made in the UN in 1947 and today the Muslim Kashmiris who do not want to be a part of India are paying the price.It is only when both Hindus and Muslims jointly protest against these injustices of the Indian Government can India be called a true democracy.
Only when both countries reach points of commonalities can there be a chance for a just and peaceful dialogue and a possible prevention of a war.
Kouser Izhar,
I perfectly agree with you.
Hum…. Till this day you guys tried to befriend all Indian Muslims, but now you are now trying to with North Indian Muslims?
Anyway can you explain the case which was proved in 1971 war? Do you mean creation of Bangladesh?
Can you back your claim that south have more tolerence than the north with relevent links? Dont tell tales like cunning Hindu mind and innocent Muslim mind.
Kindly substantiate each and every point of yours with relevent non Pakistani Links and non Pakistani Authors, I will accept it after that.
If Kashmir muslims are against India then why the Kashmiri people have not revolted against Indian rule during 1965 war?
India had become the de-facto 6th nuclear power of the world, India had got more than the US in the nuclear deal…. It is not that we cannot test a nuclear bomb at all, If we test a bomb, they will not supply the fuel.
Let me tell you one thing, Pakistan will not stop till they get Kashmir(They dont mind about Taliban or AQ or bomb blasts. etc) Pakistan is coming weaker day by day, India is becoming stronger day by day, There is no way that a stronger nation make concessions to a weaker nation.
Pakistan cannot accept this, they will fuel terrorism and finally there will be a war for the politicians to come to senses.
It is gone much beyond hatred, Pakistan has to survive or India should Survive….. As simple as that.
Mr Rakesh. It looks like you have to look a little more honestly into the history of the sub-continent.
I have criticised all parties as I tried my best to take a neutral stand. But wherever there is a fault I have pointed it out.
Ever since the partition, India was never happy with the existence of Pakistan. The partition had its advantage and its disadvantages. The advantage was that Pakistan became a part of the Islamic world. Countries of the Middle East,, the Gulf, Africa ,the South East looked upon Pakistan as a brother country.
The disadvantage was that the Muslims who were left behind in India became second class citizens overnight especially in the North.
No. We are not suddenly sympathising with the North Indian Muslims. But facts are facts.The effect of the partition had its terrible impact in the North. Systematic massacres of Muslims encouraged by the Hindu communal parties took place . Neither the police nor the local Government did anything abut it. They simply did not care.It is the same today.
Today the Muslims of the north live in shocking poverty with no opportunities whatsoever. Some fortunate ones managed to escape to the Gulf countries to find work and did just about good.But there was a heavy competition from the Hindus who seem to have suddenly forgotten their anti Muslim stance and chose to work and make money in countries like Dubai,Sharjah,Kuwait and many others. So even this only opportunity is being lost for the unfortunate Muslims of India.
The South Indian Muslims live in communities and so feel a little more secure. They have nothing in common with the North Indian Muslim except for the belief in Islam. There is certainly an atmosphere of tolerance compared to the crazy north towards the Muslims.The South is a different country with totally different people.There should have been a partition of the South and North instead of just the North.
Do you know that even rich and famous Muslims cannot hope to rent or buy a flat in the state of Maharashtra and the North? This evil is slowly spreading throughout India. So much for democratic India.
Apart from this the hatred shown by Hindus towards Muslims is unbelievable. You just have to go to the Hindu websites like Rediff.com and Sify .com. Read the comments against Muslims in general and you will know what I am talking about.
Unfortunately there is not one powerful Muslim politician who can bring out the grievances. Sometimes they even join the BJP! So forget about Muslims holding high posts etc. They are worst than communal minded Hindus.
Kashmiri Muslims have not revolted? Cant you see what is going on everyday in Kashmir? The simple answer is India has got a half million military force,police and the notorious para-military that terrorises the helpless population of the valley.Raping of women is common.Even old women are not spared.Sometimes whole villages are ransacked and all women young and old raped. What is Indian military proud about? These bullies ought to be ashamed of themselves. Shooting down of teenage youth calling it encounters and locking up innocent people behind bars for years without any charge is a common feature in Kashmir. So the youth form organisations and fight back to seek revenge and defend their families. Then you call them ‘jihadis’ or terrorists or whatever.
Why did India renege on its promise of plebiscite for kashmir? It was made before the UN in 1947/48. They simply lied. All this problem today is because of this great lie.
Hindus must get over their inferiority complex over the fact that they were ruled by Muslims for a thousand years. The world has changed and one must move with the times. They must stop talking about revenge and showing the Muslims a lesson. It was this attitude and this language during the early twentieth century that facilitated the reasons for a partition. Jinnah had bargained till the last moment for a federal state but Nehru did not understand the importance of Islam as he was an atheist. Moreover his advisor Mr Patel was all too happy to let the Muslims go. Jaswant Singh could not have made it more clear. Truth hurts and so he was sacked.
Mr Rezan,
1. ‘It looks like you have to look a little more honestly into the history of the sub-continent.’ – I am well aware of the history of the sub continent.
2. ‘I have criticised all parties as I tried my best to take a neutral stand. But wherever there is a fault I have pointed it out.’ – You can point out anything and everything, but kindly back your claims with relevant non-Pakistan Links.
3. ‘Ever since the partition India was never happy with the existence of Pakistan. ’ – Yes, India was never happy with the existence of Pakistan.
4. ‘Countries of the Middle East,, the Gulf, Africa ,the South East looked upon Pakistan as a brother country.’ – A good comedy, they are all rich countries, why they are letting their brother to be poor.
5. ‘Muslims who were left behind in India became second class citizens overnight especially in the North’ – How can you tell that, Have you ever visited India? Who told you that? I hope you are a normal citizen, Even you are made to believe like that, I hope how much false information does the LeT and Jamad-ud-Dawa feed the un-educated Jihadi’s
6. ‘No. We are not suddenly sympathising with the North Indian Muslims. But facts are facts.The effect of the partition had its terrible impact in the North.’ – Yes, The Hindus lived in Pakistan also faced the same miserable consequences, Why are you not pointing out that? They also have migrated from Pakistan to India, They were also killed by Muslim Groups.
7. Systematic massacres of Muslims encouraged by the Hindu communal parties took place . Neither the police nor the local Government did anything abut it. They simply did not care.It is the same today. – Hello boss, Systematic massacres of Hindus and Sikhs also took place in Pakistan, Don’t hide the facts, you telling something like Hindus & Sikhs killed the Muslim’s; And Muslims in the principles of Islam have not killed a single Hindu or a Sikh. Hindus Killed Muslims and Muslims Killed Hindus and Sikhs, So mistake in both part, I should not blame you and you should not blame me.
You seem to speak about the 1947 and 1948 incidents…. So what reason you have for 2008 Mumbai incidents? Does killing of unarmed civilian with sophisticated weapons is allowed in Islam, If the so called Terrorist are truly men they should have shown the courage and valor to Indian Soldiers who guard the borders, not to unarmed civilians, What does the poor Shopkeeper in the Railway station done for the Muslims? Respect the fellow human beings life, then you can be a devoted Muslim. I hope your god will not punish me for this statement.
8. ‘Today the Muslims of the north live in shocking poverty with no opportunities whatsoever.’ – Haaa….. My father was in poverty when he was young, He got no aid or the so called opportunity from the government or anything, Same is the case with his Muslim friend Anwar Ahamed, They used to tell me that there were days that they starved. They both worked hard and came up in life. Look you are speaking something like the government are providing opportunities to all non-Muslims and Muslims are denied these opportunities… This is not the case.
I am a person against reservations, If it is for a Hindu or for a Muslim reservation is bad, I know Muslims have reservations in Government job, so is for low caste Hindus and Christians. I am against it, Everyone should have equal opportunities.
9. ‘Some fortunate ones managed to escape to the Gulf countries to find work and did just about good.But there was a heavy competition from the Hindus who seem to have suddenly forgotten their anti Muslim stance and chose to work and make money in countries like Dubai,Sharjah,Kuwait and many others. So even this only opportunity is being lost for the unfortunate Muslims of India.’ – I am sorry to say that you are speaking without a logic, You are telling that muslims are denied opportunities, that means Hindus get opportunities, If Hindus get Opportunities, Why the hell do they need to go to Gulf? You are dreaming something which is not true, No Indian had great opportunity back some 20 or 30 years. If I am educated then I have to go to US or UK for higher studies and subsequently to get a job. If I am not educated, I have to go to Malaysia or Singapore or Gulf to earn a living, I am no better than a Muslim. We are more concerned about the Indian Muslims than you.
10. ‘The South Indian Muslims live in communities and so feel a little more secure. They have nothing in common with the North Indian Muslim except for the belief in Islam.’ – Again you are speaking without facts, What proof you have?
11. ‘There is certainly an atmosphere of tolerance compared to the crazy north towards the Muslims.The South is a different country with totally different people.There should have been a partition of the South and North instead of just the North.’ – If the People live in peace and harmony why the hell you want the partition in the south, From this it is clear you are not neutral, If one or two people have problems, I hope Indian government had no problems for them to migrate to Pakistan.
12. ‘Do you know that even rich and famous Muslims cannot hope to rent or buy a flat in the state of Maharashtra and the North? This evil is slowly spreading throughout India. So much for democratic India.’ – Ok the same rich and famous Muslim told that those statements are false and not much of a value, I am an non-vegetarian Hindu, I cannot rent a flat in Vegetarian Hindu’s place, I should respect his beliefs because it is his house. If that is the case in Maharastra, then by this time there should be no Muslim living in Maharastra, Is that is the case? I don’t think so…. Don’t do generalizations, India is no where near a perfect democracy or communal society.
13. ‘Apart from this the hatred shown by Hindus towards Muslims is unbelievable. You just have to go to the Hindu websites like Rediff.com and Sify .com. Read the comments against Muslims in general and you will know what I am talking about.’ – Show me one such links.
14. Unfortunately there is not one powerful Muslim politician who can bring out the grievances. Sometimes they even join the BJP! So forget about Muslims holding high posts etc. They are worst than communal minded Hindus. – I hope it is not my problem, Even we don’t have a single Hindu good politician, Vote banks plays.
15. ‘Kashmiri Muslims have not revolted? Cant you see what is going on everyday in Kashmir? The simple answer is India has got a half million military force, police and the notorious para-military that terrorises the helpless population of the valley. Raping of women is common. Even old women are not spared. Sometimes whole villages are ransacked and all women young and old raped. What is Indian military proud about? These bullies ought to be ashamed of themselves. Shooting down of teenage youth calling it encounters and locking up innocent people behind bars for years without any charge is a common feature in Kashmir. So the youth form organisations and fight back to seek revenge and defend their families. Then you call them ‘jihadis’ or terrorists or whatever.’ – FYI in 1948 the terrorist who invaded Kashmir have Raped, looted the POK, don’t try to tell that you are a saint and I am a devil, Also during 1971 West Pakistan sent thousands of soldiers to East Pakistan just to rape the Bengali Muslims women just to show the Bengali men that they are incapable to protect their women. I am not advocating that raping a women is right or something like that…. Raping a women is a shamefull activity. Pakistanis are doing it, In Kashmir it happens…. But telling that all Kashmir women are raped… is a pure LIE. The rate is same as it happens elsewhere in India, If you are not agree with me, Back your claims with relevant non-Pakistan links.
16. ‘Why did India renege on its promise of plebiscite for kashmir? It was made before the UN in 1947/48. They simply lied. All this problem today is because of this great lie.’ – Before that UN adviced Pakistan to vacate POK and the plebiscite will happen after that, Why Pakistan have not vacated POK? If you speaking about something, speak about the pros and cons.
17. ‘Hindus must get over their inferiority complex over the fact that they were ruled by Muslims for a thousand years. The world has changed and one must move with the times. They must stop talking about revenge and showing the Muslims a lesson. It was this attitude and this language during the early twentieth century that facilitated the reasons for a partition. Jinnah had bargained till the last moment for a federal state but Nehru did not understand the importance of Islam as he was an atheist. Moreover his advisor Mr Patel was all too happy to let the Muslims go. Jaswant Singh could not have made it more clear. Truth hurts and so he was sacked.’ – Ha ha ha, Kindly read the comments posted by your country men Haider237, He is telling that ‘Pakistan flag will fly on Lal Qila’ and the muslims will again rule the Hindus as slaves…. I hate that Nehru a lot…. He is sole responsible person for 1962 failure, For your Information Mr Patel told that Jinnnah wanted a unified India but Nehru and Patel was not readu to accept his demands.
Let me tell you one thing clear, Please don’t worry about an Indian Muslim, I don’t mind about the Hindus and Sikhs live in Pakistan, No Indian will entertain Pakistan and its terrorist, We are one… Don’t try to break us, You mind your business, I mind mine.
I am tired of speaking these guys…. Tell me in what way the Pakistan people is greater than the Indians?
Any CEO in Major Companies…. Any World class Politicians.
How many people in Pakistan become ‘Time Person of the year’?
Ansari
http://www.haqeeqat.org/2009/09/03/the-remarkable-pakistanis-we-are-proud-of
Follow this link.
@
Proud Pakistani
Pakistan Zindabad
- [ Admin Edit: Link made local. Thanks for sharing Ali ]
Ali,
First of all I want to thank OmEr Jamil, He has done a great work in collecting information on such a small scale.
Frankly, Apart from Nuclear Proliferator Prof. Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, I have never heard of anyone.
Tahir Ghani – Senior Principal Engineer in Intel – I am sure, If I go this level I can get you atleast 10,000 Indian Names, one such is below.
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Indian_Brains_behind_Intel_Tera_Chip/551-79344-581.html
For the remaining google it.
ILYAS KHAN – Group Managing Director, Investment Banking
For this I can get you some thousand name, FYI CEO of City Bank and Pepsi co is an Indian… google for the name.
There were some dozen world Class scientists, Does only these Dozen represent Pakistan?
I googled about State Bank of Pakistan and State Bank of India….
http://www.sbp.org.pk/about/speech/2009/IBP-19-June-09.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Bank_of_India
geniuenly, Pakistan is nowhere near India.
Pakistan has everything within itself for a 36th Largest Country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_outlying_territories_by_total_area) and 6th most populated Country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population) in the world. But having this types of resources and saying that Pakistan is an Equal to India… is very childish…. I have really remained neutral.
Pleasure is half mine and half I’d share with Ali for pointing out
@ Ansari
Good joke moron
Why are so Indians so rude even on the internet forums. We all know that they are generally loud and impolite when it comes to good manners. But this takes the cake. Just compare to the replies of the Pakistanis with those of the Indians. There is a sense of modesty and good manners whereas the replies of the Indians whether Hindu or Muslim are so full of arrogance and rudeness. First of all they never admit their mistake nor do they apologise. They just reply in an arrogant way making it appear that India or Indians are flawless. This only proves who is better Indian or Pakistani.
Mr Ansari may have adopted a Muslim name. But sorry to say he has no Islamic manners.
Ho….. Can you kindly teach me the Muslim manners?
If you are an expert in it… Why don’t you advice the Jihadi’s whom are killing innocent people like Mumbai Citizens in last November?
Killing a person by cutting his throat, and beheading. Is that is what the true Islamic Manner teaches?
I don’t worry about you telling me a non-muslim, I know what I am and I don’t need your certificate.
Be a Human being first then you can be a Muslim.
Rezan Why are you not backing any of your claims with relevent links? You mean to say that Haider237 and Zahid have spoke in sense of modesty and Good Manner? Good Joke.
Ho… Thank you.
Follow the link below
http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/24/pollution-baku-oil-biz-logistics-cx_tl_0226dirtycities_slide_20.html?thisSpeed=15000
This survey of Worlds 25 dirtiest cities was carried out in 2008 & fortunately two of the metro cities of great Bharat Mata qualified & stand at 7 (Mumbai) & 24 (Delhi).
Dear Indians have a look & feel proud…hahahah
Really Pakistan is nowhere near India.Ohhhhhhhh
Ok, Please read the comment posted there.
‘India’s government hopes to transform Mumbai back into a burgeoning metropolis after recent economic decline. A recent private-sector report, Vision Mumbai, proposed changes in infrastructure, pollution control and economic growth strategy, which contributed to the seeking of approximately $1 billion of aid from Indian government.’
We are improving…. $1 Billion for Mumbai is very less, atleast they could have given 10 Billion $
New Delhi,
Ok, It has Problems but see the back yard of the boy.
Before that take a look at the Population and ‘Population Density’ by the concept called City Proper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population
Also try to find the number of families which come to Mumbai and Delhi daily… Come on yaar… It is just a city not heaven or hell which has infinite space.
Yes it is a disadvantage, That does not mean that people cannot live in Delhi and Mumbai.
See the list of cities by GDP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP
I hope it is much better than Karachi.
Here are some facts about India as published in Indian and Western media!!
Hunger in India states ‘alarming’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7669152.stm
Twelve Indian states have “alarming” levels of hunger while the situation is “extremely alarming” in the state of Madhya Pradesh, says a new report.
Madhya Pradesh’s nutrition problems, it says, are comparable to the African countries of Ethiopia and Chad.
India has more people suffering hunger – a figure above 200 million – than any other country in the world, it says.
The report, released as part of the 2008 Global Hunger Index, ranks India at 66 out 88 countries.
‘Scored worse’………………….
“Despite years of robust economic growth, India scored worse than nearly 25 sub-Saharan African countries and all of South Asia, except Bangladesh,” the report says.
The best performing state was Punjab, which has a ’serious’ hunger problem and does less well than developing countries such as Gabon, Vietnam and Honduras.
………………………..
=================================
India tops world hunger chart
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India-tops-world-hunger-chart/articleshow/4197047.cms
NEW DELHI: India is failing its rural poor with 230 million people being undernourished — the highest for any country in the world. Malnutrition
accounts for nearly 50% of child deaths in India as every third adult (aged 15-49 years) is reported to be thin (BMI less than 18.5)…………More than 27% of the world’s undernourished population lives in India while 43% of children (under 5 years) in the country are underweight. The figure is among the highest in the world and is much higher than the global average of 25% and also higher than sub-Saharan Africa’s figure of 28%.
Karachi’s young and energetic Mustafa Kamal, the mayor is chosen by an award winning American magazine Foreign Policy as 2nd best mayor in the world for year 2008. In UK the Indians brag about them owning many shops and retails outlets . But they all do thir buying from Pakistani owned ” Bestways Cash & Carry Group ” . The largest Cash & carry Wholesale in UK . 95% of the Local Costcutter , Londis Stores are own by persons of Pakistani Origin . One can make a long list i needed .
If one was to make a list of 20 most important place in Indian . You will see maximum one or two were made by Hindu / Sikh Indian . Most were made by Muslim .
[Admin Edit: Regaring Mustafa Kamal, the FP has long issued this statement and the Karachi Administration had apologized for hasty quote. Kindly add to your information. Link ]
Boss, This is not a fight between a Muslim against Hindu or a Sikh…. It is between Pakistan and India.
“If one was to make a list of 20 most important place in Indian . You will see maximum one or two were made by Hindu / Sikh Indian . Most were made by Muslim.”
I am not sure if the above statement is true, There is no relevent links to back it….. Anyway if it is true, then I am happy.
Never ever try to befriend an Indian Muslim, We are not your friends Periods.
And I have read in news papers as how Pakistan students are treated in UK.
In large Indian cities approx 25% of the Local population live on teh street or in shanty town . I will ask the Indian to come and visit large cities in Pakistan , you will notice the absence of street dwellers . Pakistani City population need no live and sleep on street out of necessity .
Pakistan Zindaabad
Again and again, You are speaking without the facts.
How come you types ‘approx 25%’ and can you show me relevent links?
Again 25% of the Local population means? What is meant by local Population? 250 – 260 Million?
Atleast we sleep in streets, but we dont use violence against women in the streets.
Ansari u did not read of treatment of Indian students in Australia.
Dont try to be oblivious of the facts.
I guess u r living in a fools paradise,plz wake up.
Pakistan Paindabad
Again and again you are not right.
Indian students are not attacked by Austalian Government, Kevin Rudd, the Prime Minister of Australia told that Indians are most welcome.
Indians were attacked by Racially motivated citizens of Australia. There was no news of Australian government ill-treating the Indian Citizens…. Ok.
Even Australia had charged Indian Muslim Doctor with Terrorism, but he proved his innocence and now he is now working in Australia.
There are lot of difference between what happens in UK and Australia. I am much aware of the facts.
You are again and again speaking that we are arrogant and not with good Manners, Ok if that is the case, Please don’t watch Indian Movies and Indian TV Channels. No Indian Cine Star told that they are Pakistani.
Even if the Pakistan is greater than India, We will not give up, and vice verca.
You close your border and do your job, We will do ours. Why are we wasting time?
Dear Mr.Ansari,
Being an Indain u have rightly defended (where I am reading these commnets) ur country. Pakistan was born on the basis of hatred.That is why they know only yo hate and nothing else.The only agenda of Pakistani government is “Keep burning the issue of Kashmir”. If they brush aside this issue, their own men will kill them.
Thank u.
because you interfere our country and your are involved in spreading terrorism in our country in balochistan and fata.do not interfere our countru
Hey buddy,
Simple logic, Give your proof to International court.. and give your proof to you all whethered friend China, and allay America.
And if they accept your proof, then you speak. Rehman malik says ‘We have a very credible proof on Indian Involvement’
Shah Mehmood Qureshi says ‘The proof which we have against India is not enough, Still we need to arrive at consensus’
You are giving weapons to terrorists and asking them to kill innocent civilians.
even if your statement is true… We are giving arms to civilians asking them to fight the Armed Pakistani soliders.
I hope this is much more fair.
I am a Senior Project Manager serving a huge mulinational group in UAE,there are few Indian Muslims working under me,They often reveal their stories how they are ill-treated in India.
Ansari , u dont represent 300 million muslims in India who have a soft heart for their Pakistani brothers.I m sure u r a Hindu with a muslim name worling to create distance between Pakistanis & Indian Muslims.
Dear Moderator,
This man (Ansari) is a real shit in this forum please throw him out
Ha…. Mr Senior Project Manager, I am Vice-President of a very Huge Multi-National Corporation….. So don’t try to threaten us with your designation. OK?
Don’t make comedies, Your Imaginary Indian Muslims can tell you that Muslims are shot down in India like anything… but that cannot become truth, Right?
So an Indian Muslim cannot represent 300 million muslims in India, only a Pakistan muslim can do it?
Why do you want to mingle with Indian Muslims? If they are supporting you, All 300 million will be Jihadi’s. I don’t think that is case.
My Dear Moderator,
The word ‘Shit’ tells the character of Senior Project Manager, I hope you will read the articles and come to know.
Read this Mr Senior Project Manger.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/02/voices_from_kashmir/html/
Ho…. You are really very funny yaar….. Very good comedies you make. Software company in UAE, and that too, Indian software employees are working under Pakistani SENIOR PROJECT MANAGER.
Too gifted yaar…
And thse Indian sub-ordinates have gone and cried to Pakistani SENIOR PROJECT MANAGER. Probably you can write stories in Bollywood movies.
Why can’t you ask your sub-ordinates to reply to my posts? It would be fun, really, you can write as an Indian Muslim with Muslim Name.
Also you are asking me to be thrown out of this forum…. Ha ha ha… So what technology you are managing?
Asad Rauf, you are an idiot. You claim to be a Senior Project Manager in UAE. For a supposedly educated man you got stats messed up. Like most muslims, you exaggerate the population: 300 million Muslims in India. Wishful thinking on your part! LOL
If India is such an heaven for the Muslim of India . How come Muslim keep on migrating to Pakistan whenever they have an opportunity > i now live in London . Many Muslim family from India and Pakistan prefer to marry in each other family then the non Muslim . However when they intermarry , for some reason they call themselves and associate with Pakistan . They visit Karachi for Wedding shopping , not India . Given a choice a India Muslim would rather be a Pakistani then Indian . I can give you many example of such cases . I also married an India lady from India . Now she proudly love to visit Karachi and totally enjoy Pakistan . She has been to India couple times again , but she feel alien and find the local attitude unacceptable and degrading .
Haider,
You told 25% of Indians are living in streets, I asked for the link to you, You provided none till now.
Kindly, Kindly, Kindly speak with the facts backed by relevent non -Pakistani links. Please don’t troll around here.
Please Provide me a valid link for ‘How come Muslim keep on migrating to Pakistan whenever they have an opportunity’
I don’t think Indian Muslims are migrating to Pakistan in any kind, Pakistan is no heaven.
I am not a Muslim Living in UK, so I have no autority to speak on behalf of them. Please don’t equate them to Indian Muslim. If they went to Karachi, then that means Karachi is good for Wedding Shopping.
We are not against Pakistani, but the Pakistani
On the whole, What is the point that you are trying to make?
India is great. Take a look at this. Its your own Indian website rediff.com
Write a message
Showing 1-10 of total 11 messages Pages | 1 | 2 Older >
KANGRESS WANTS SLUMS
by such jano on Sep 04, 2009 09:36 PM | Hide replies
FOR TWO REASONS.
First, most people here are their imported voters from bangladesh who also come to promote secularism in the country.
Second, slums people vote easily in return for a rice bag, cant blame them though.
Forward | Report abuse
60 yrs of kangrass made slums
by Prakash Ahir on Sep 04, 2009 09:26 PM | Hide replies
60 yrs of kangrass made slums
Kangrass is a advertisig agency
Forward | Report abuse
Slumbai
by SaneIndian on Sep 04, 2009 06:55 PM | Hide replies
Slumbai is the worst city in the entire world.
Slumdog Millionare has shown the real face of Mumbai. Not the one shown in Bollywood.
Where are those who cried that West wants to portray India in a poor light to make money??
This is the reality of Mumbai. The Biggest Trash can of the world.
The trash cans in Singapore and Shanghai are cleaner than Mumbai.
54% of the people do not have access to restrooms. Now you can imagine all the smell that comes out of Slumbai.
Forward | Report abuse
Rezan,
Where is the link?
You are telling something like Imported voters…. There are lot of chances for this to happen, I don’t think it down grades anything on India.
Rice bag is too much yaar, If you give them 10 rupees, there are people to vote…. It is a fact.
Hum, the one which is shown in Slumdog Millionare is real Mumbai, Nothing to hide in it….
India is not a land of Millionares, See the population of Mumbai, How much can a Single City can take people?
There are three kinds of people in economic lines, broadly, Poor, Middle class, Rich. Yes Poor in Mumbai live in Slums, It is not a thing to be ashamed off, Instead we should work to convert the Slums to a place where people can live.
Does Pakistan does not have any slums, not even one is living in slum? If you say ‘Yes, Pakistan has no Slums then, It is a thing that India needs to be ashamed of’
If you think India is not a great country, they why are you waiting, finish India in no time and Take Kashmir on your side…. Slums are not the face of India. Right…. Read a book called ‘The World is Flat’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat
written by American Author.
Pakistan’s slums are in no way as shocking as those of India. The poverty, disease and the beggars flocking at railway stations,people sleeping rough on the roads are seen nowhere in Pakistan.
You should also know that a few years ago accordsing to the International board of Tourism India ranked among the the least chosen tourist destination in terms of hygiene.We do not know the situation now.
According to World Development Council even the poverty in certain countries of Africa is not so bad as that of India.
As I had mentioned before there is no use wearing a very expensive three piece suit to fool people when you know you have a disease that is killing you from inside .
You have diseases like Communal hate ,Casteism and corruption at the highest levels.
In your greed to amass more weapons to attack Pakistan you have befriended a terrorist state like Israel and not the least ashamed about it. Yet you talk of Human Rights and Justice in spite of knowing what Israel is doing and has done to the Palestinians in their rightful land.
It should be remembered that Israel was the only state that completely backed South Africa’s apartheid regime.Until the BJP Govt came into power remember that Israel was not even recognised by India just as South Africa was not. This was India a once proud country though poor had political dignity. Today is being sold to the US and Israel.
manage.future.org.cn/attachment/…/124250_The.World.Is.Flat.pdf
Read this book, This is not a Anti Pakistani Book.
A book mostly about India and China and Global issues.
This is the main article. Read the facts.
Every 2nd person in Mumbai lives in a slum
Last updated on: September 04, 2009 11:23 IST
Tags: Regional Centre for Urban and Environmental Studies, All India Institute of Local Self-Government, Urban Poverty Reduction Strategy, United Nations Development Programme, Mumbai Urban Transport Project
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India’s financial capital which houses the maximum number of slum dwellers in the country has one in two persons residing in a slum, as per a Human Development Report compiled by Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) and the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).
“Worldwide, one in three persons lives in a slum. But the figures are much higher for Mumbai [ Images ] where 54.1 per cent of the population are slum dwellers as per 2001 census. This means that ‘one in two persons in Mumbai city is residing in a slum’,” the report said.
“They occupy just six per cent of all land in Mumbai explaining the horrific levels of congestion,” it added.
Delhi [ Images ] has 18.9 per cent, Kolkata [ Images ] 11.72 per cent and Chennai 25.60 per cent in slums. Some 29 per cent, between a fourth and third of Maharashtra’s urban population resides in Mumbai’s slums.
The first cut-off date was 1976, meaning the slums settled prior to 1975 were recognised and notified. The present cut-off date for notification of slums is 1995 but the government recently declared that pre-2000 slums would be regularised.
In 2006-07, the city had a per capita income of Rs 65,361, twice than the country’s average per capita income of Rs 29,382.
Despite having the highest per capita income in the country, the income of nearly 10 per cent population of the city is not above Rs 591.75 per month, which means Rs 20 a day.
These families do not have amenities like televisison, fridge, fan, toilets in their house, source of water supply, do not own any vehicle or farm and children studying in government or private schools.
Quoting a report on Urban Poverty Reduction Strategy by the Regional Centre for Urban and Environmental Studies, All India Institute of Local Self-Government, UNDP said, in 1998 poverty was much low at only 8.5 per cent.
A baseline survey of 16,000 slum households by the MMRDA for its Mumbai Urban Transport Project says, with an average monthly household income of Rs 2,978, and 40 per cent of them were below the poverty line.
The UNDP report says, the poor in Mumbai are residing across three distinct habitat categories. The first of these is the chawls – either single or multi-storeyed, single-room tenements and pavement dwellers.
The poor who live there include migrants, construction workers, street vendors, domestic help, beggars, waste pickers, sex workers, taxi and auto rickshaw drivers and workers.
As per the report, the slum and hutment dwellers of unauthorised structures form an integral part of this vibrant metropolis.
Most of the slum dwellers participate in the informal economy which by all accounts would appear to be growing, the report said. “No country in the industrial age has ever achieved significant economic growth without urbanisation. If migration and urbanization are two sides of a coin, slums are the natural outcomes of urbanisation. Not all poor people live in slums, and not all people who live in areas defined as slums are poor,” the report said.
Urban poverty is not seen as only income poverty but absence of access to basic civic services as well and the quality of their habitats. However, for the sake of simplicity, the urban poor can be termed the slum dwellers, it said.
Poor qualities of shelter, extreme overcrowding, poor access to public services, including basic civic facilities as well as insecurity of land tenure in most cases are the other markers of poverty, the report said, adding, “there has been no change in the condition of the slum dwellers even though the non-slum areas in the city have improved their lifestyles.”
“Therefore, a slum-dweller deserves not patchy, incidental, but focused attention, probably positive treatment or positive discrimination – to bring them into the mainstream of the city to which they contribute,” the report said.
What is the point you are making? This is world know truth, I have accepted….. Please enlighten me.
I am just saying that India is not al that great that you are boasting about. 54% of the people in Mumbai do not have restrooms! So what is the point in sending rockets not space or investing billions in arms purchase. What is the point in producing billionaires and modern technology or manufacturing cars based on western models when basic human facilities are not solved first. First infrastructure has to be built.India still appears ancient in many ways. Talking about India’s development it is like someone wearing a nice looking expensive suit when is suffering from some horrible disease inside.
Your communal problems are inexcusable. Genocide against Muslims goes on all the time. The atrocities committed by ‘high caste’ against ‘low caste’ is widely practised throughout India. The UN charter of human rights has placed India as a violator of human rights in terms of its dreadful caste system. The Muslim rule saved many innocent trapped ‘low castes’ but today it is still alive and kicking.Do not deny it. Yet you call yourself a democracy.
By the way the link you asked for the article sent is http://www.rediff.com Check it out.It is an Indian link
First of all who the hell are you to say that India should spend on this and India should not spend on that?
There were people started from nothing and reached for skies, There were many Musilim Entrepreneurs too.
There were millions who are not ready to work hard anf come out of Poverty, I have seen peoples like earning 100 rupees per day and he used to drink Liquour for 60 – 70 Rupees at the end of the day and rhe remaining 20-30 is for the family, even that 20 or 30 will be taken by some theifs when the durnkard is down.
Which country will uplift peoples like this, Let them suffer, Why do you mind.
And Genocide is too much a word, There were violence against Pakistani Christians… You were not saints… Ok?
Ansari,
I would like u to post your birth certificate on this forum.As many of our friends on this forum are not believing u to be an Indian Muslim.
It would be accepted only if it is attested by Ministry of foreign affairs.
Ha ha ha… guys Pakistani’s are believeing in many myths that is not at all true.
Mr Ansari or should I say Mr Fraud Ansari . You do not have to believe in myth . Just the fact . Let me give you one more fact . Loads of citizen of India and Pakistan would love to come and live in UK . They even pay money to Human Smugglers for this , whereas in private chat many will criticize the English culture and way of life . But still they prefer UK there mother land . WHY ? Because they are better off in UK , get more respect and freedom plus justice . Same also applies in the case of Indian Muslim migrating to Pakistan . There are over 20 million of them in Pakistan , this figure does not include persons who’s families from East Punjab in 1947 /48 .They call themselves (very proudly ) Urdu speaking Mohajir . They have held some top job in Pakistan both in Military and Civilian sector . Ex President Musharraf was born in Delhi .
Come on Mr Importer Ansari revel your true identity .
I do believe your are so blinded by your hate of Pakistan that no amount of fact will change you . So please chat here like a normal person or disappear into you mandir . Sooner the better
Myths?, here comes the reality! All of the discussion participants must see it
India’s 1998 Nuclear Test Was A Fizzle; A Failure!
You call anything you want, This will not affect me in anyway. But back all your claims with relevent non-pakistani Links.
If you give valid links there is no reason for me to speak like you, Please don’t troll around all the time.
Again I am telling, India need not do anything to Pakistan, There were guys like Taliban and AlQueda are present to do that job.
They will beat women in public and shoot women and innocent people in public, Pakistan Image will be tarnished in the so called UK also. I don’t need a counter reply for this, Let time answer.
This is for Haider
You should also consider looking into your own country too . In Bihar one can buy a Indian / Hindu woman for less then $500 dollars . The Indian army has been accused by the Kashmiris for rape and murder of few thousand women .
Sort out the injustice in your own country . The website is for Pakistani and those who wish only best for Pakistan .
Again, Again and Again…. back your claims with relevent links, I am asking for the relevent links for 4th time to you.
Are you so dumb, Don’t tell What you believe, It is not for me to take it as such.
Buddy 500 US Dollars = 25000 is too much for women in Bihar yaar!!… You dont know the face, They can be bought still cheaper.
Again have you forgot how the West Pakistan Soliders raped East Pakistan women during 1970. Don’t tell Pakistani Soliders are Saints and others are devils…. Ok.
I told that Taliban will do it, not Pakistani’s do it, Syour statements tells that beating women in public is common in Pakistan, Is it so?
@Ansari:
I believe you didn’t bother to go through the article and are releasing ready-made statement of yours without even validating the references in fact! Blaming right-away, for no reason and out of no-where is not something good nor welcomed!!! Moreover, I’m not putting in relevant links to counter your or anyone else’s sake of making a point, but to contribute a subject-relevant article. I appreciate healthy discussions and topic-related additions are a part!
All the references are indian and merican, on-record and authentic
Your own scientists and reporters are claiming it. None of their claims were challenged, instead were supported!
What is the Myth which I specified has to do with Nuclear test and the Chandrayaan?
Also you are speaking only to the points which you fnd it advantate… We sent a satellite to Moon, Have you people ever dream of this without Chinese doing that work in your behalf?
and also, this:
Lone Survivor From India’s Failed Moon Mission Chandrayaan-I
Boss, Ok,
India’s 1998 Nuclear Test Was A Fizzle; A Failure!
and the space mission is a failure….. Have Indians told that Nuclear test and ‘Chandrayaan – I’ were a great sucess?
Also I mean the myth as Pakistani thinking about Indian way of life, and it had nothing to do with Nuclear test and Chandrayan.
We don’t need to explain anything to Pakistani Citizens. Think what ever you want… India is a Nuclear Power and a country which has capabilites to conduct Space Research, if you like it or not, if you believe it or not, if you accept it or not. Fact is a fact.
And a country can keep Nuclear bomb making process secret, But I dont know what wierd reason you have for having the Space mission Secret, Any way congratz….
Thanks. I don’t need to be bias or use any pessimist approach. You are kindly advised to read the comments below both these articles to take it as an out-of-the-box spectrum.
By the way it seems you are managing the whole site, Good Works, Keep it up.
Ansari,
I concede your superiorty & I acknowlege that India is the sole super power having a world of resources & wealth.
I could have admit this a long ago if I had known that these little things can make u happy.
Be happy now…& celebrate your victory
Ha ha ha,.. I am happy now, I am happy now, I am happy now.
You have made me a fool, You have succeeded in this attempt…. Satisfied?
ansari these pakis keep on sayin things based on a film man.. slumdog millionare. tell them to c their own “khuda ke liye”. the’ll come to know of their own intolerance and the treatment of women. and if they say that the movie is fraud, let us say slumdog is a fraud. that guy danny boyle created such a movie just to feed on others wounds and make quick money. gimme money i could make an equally worse film usin the slums of Haiti (or even karachi!they think its their new york). agree that v hav a hell lotta poor people nd huge slums but just look at mumbai’s size. its 1 of the largest cities in the world. and such probs are bound to happen in a commercial place. (during the industrial revolution entire english cities were filled with slums). if people dont wanna get themselves educated inspite of various govt scemes and 50% reservation for backward classes in jobs,its their prob. v cannot force them to accept our schemes.
atleast here in india if hindus kill muslims, in pakistan there are riots between ethnic punjabi muslims, sindhis and pashtuns time and again in karachi. all are muslims! and the shia sunni killings. and suicide bombings in mosques. killing of christians…..
pakis are living in a fantasy world jealous of our space programs and defense spendings. while their own country is almost bankrupt and goess abegging with IMF and US, and instead of usin that money for development spend it for buying weapons.. allah(swt) save them
Cool Yaar, Mumbai Slums is a Truth, Accept it…
The GOP have made a successful attempt in fueling Anti-India Hatred.
They are telling* that Muslims in India are living like Slaves and Hindus are Killing them every day and a word Genocide** which happens in India.
They are so driven by Indian Muslim brotherhood, If we say that this is not all the case then they will tell that we are Hindus in Muslim Name.
I have provided them links of Kashmir Muslims thoughts.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/02/voices_from_kashmir/html/
They will tell it as a cooked up story. The Terrorist and these people are at the same state of Mind.
India is not a ideal state, They will not accept even if it is an ideal state.
Do you have any obligations to prove them what we are? Even if you provide 1000 links, they will not read it nor they will substantiate their thoughts with relevent non-Pakistani Links.
They will tell you that you are a non-believer, and Pakistan flag will fly in Red Fort and they wanted us to fight against our Hindu and Sikh brothers and break India into 1000 pieces.
Why are you wating your time, Just read the article above, That speaks more on our strength.
United We Stand, Divide we Fall….
*,** Admin Note: It’s not GOP telling but the Muslims at India themselves, as well as the Indian reporters, international media and Human Rights Commissions etc etc. here: Getting Away with Murders – Gunjrat Muslim Genocides
Please provide non-Pakistani Links.
I don’t think there is any great difference between the Indians did to Gujarathi Muslims and Pakistanis done to Christians.
I am not advocating that Gujarat Incident is a small incident, Everyone condems it….
Genocide is too much a word, I challenge you, get me a non-Pakistani Link.
Please open up your eyes and see that the video, people and reporters are Indian so the content, whether or not hosted on a Pakistani link
Stop behaving like an uneducated-women by putting up pessimist and violent questions on almost every thread here and talk like a grown up! What happened in Pakistan wasn’t even a religious fight let alone the genocide, it was in result of the property-mafia’s (Mr. Awan & Co.) conspiracy. Moreover, here at Pakistan, the minorities- unlike india- are so very safer, hindus are much more safer than that of India too! Not even a single racist violence or attack of just any level has been reported. Whereas India and Indians, they are in deep shit and that too not only within India but recently I have heard about their dramatic rubbish in Australia too, they really deserved that by their own actions 
About the military comparison, you are not even worth a comparison with not only Pakistan but also Iran and N. Korea because you are just a loser when it comes to the Supreme Weapons. So, hush off Mr.
Hmmm,here, we have an article on that too, fortunately:
Indian Christians vs. Pakistani Christians
Ho Mam…. Have I ever told that what happened in Gujarat is good? I dont think so…..
What makes you think that I have behaved in an un-educated way?
You have no obligation to explain me what happened to Pakistani Christians and I have same with Gujarat Incidents.
Australia…. oops, Do you ever care to know what is the core Problem there? Australian Government welcomed Indians all the time, Mohammed Hanif is one such example, First of all you guys see whether you can get a visa to Austalia and speak again. Ok?
And can you dot down the Supreme weapons which you have? and which we dont have….
If you have supreme weapons why the hell are you not attack us? Why your Army cheif cried after Mumbai Incidents?
Come and attack us with your supreme weapons, the 5th war will have an end to Kashmir Issue, I would love to have it.
Dont troll around…. ok back-off
Oh Ansari, we very well do know what actually happened in Australia! Await my response!
Sir OmEr how can I share links here like you do?
You can simply put the url, or if you are familiar with HTML, you can also use the < a href = "url" > text < / a > tags (without extra spaces that I have put for demonstration). Please note that each comment that contains URL needs first to be approved by the moderator/admin.
Fair enough
@Mr. Ansari:
Your continuous non-serious behavior may lead us to ignore you. The above link contains the content that is neither Pakistani nor influenced at any level. It is only shared on Haqeeqat.Org, not even compiled. Each and every post has been provided with references, you didn’t even care to see the links, references and sources in the above! Had you done that, you’d have known clearly! Even an early teenager child would know that but to your specific approach- and as it seems- you do not want to!
If that is the case, I’m sorry to say, your role in discussion(s) is non-healthy and “you simply and clearly not welcome here” if you believe that even single content entry here is made-up!
Kindly evolve and prove your attitude to be like a grown-up and also, when your name looks like that of a Muslim;s, kindly look into verses and ahadith telling one’s very duty towards investigation prior to validating/authenticating; tehqeeq & tasdeeq!
Really I dont see any links in your articles which points me to any non-Pakistani Links, from which you took the article and added the following words.
“Just kidding!
That’s the last survivor from last week’s failed Indian moon mission Chandrayaan I.
Ok. Kidding again!
Before anyone calls me a jealous Pakistani”
If you have options to to show that by snap, Kindly show it to me, Do you mean to say that I need to see the links in “Recommended Links”? Even I don’t see anything there.
May be my company’s Firewalls blocks them…I am not sure.
And I have the guts to come here and post,
If you tell that I am not welcome, go ahead, ban me, and even delete all my posts, I simply don’t care.
That post is an individual opinion shared, not a case study thus does not require any URLS!
Moreover, you must not violate the simple, normal and social ethics and code of conduct in order. Gut do not make a man human, civilized education does! So kindly, honor my humble request.
Mr Ansari or whatever your pseudonym is.
Let me tell you that most of the references and information sent about Gujarat genocide is from non Pakistan links.It was Amnesty International and other Human Rights organisations that discovered and published the truth as they held various conferences in many Western cities.I had the privilege of visiting one such conference in London. There is an 80-page report published by the Amnesty International explicitly describing the monstrous way the Muslims of Gujarat had been slaughtered in 2002.The Modi government made it extremely difficult for any Human Rights organisations to investigate because the crimes would be exposed to the world. They have been anyway. So to give it less importance and compare it to the ‘killing of Christians’ in Pakistan is a joke. Christians in Pakistan enjoy the utmost security and privileges.There are some in the army too commanding the Muslim subordinates. There are frightfully huge numbers living in the border areas of Sialkot and there is a fear they could be fifth column. Likewise the Hindu and Sikh minorities are living with no problem at all. Names like ‘Guru Mandir’ ,Gandhi Gardens’ etc have not been changed.Temples and Gurdwaras are well looked after. Sikhs are a very demanding people as we know from history. Do you think they will keep quiet if they are harassed.
It should be remembered that Pakistan was created for the benefit of the Muslims of the subcontinent fearing Hindu hegemony after the British left.Hindu extremists were openly talking of ’showing Muslims a lesson’. Jinnah tried to bargain till the last moment for a federal state for Muslims in India to ensure their future security but it was of no avail as Nehru decided to be tight lipped and adamant. He did not understand the power of the Muslim people. Jinnah gave him a nasty surprise. Talking of minorities in Pakistan let me tell you that they are not in danger at all.If there were some anti Christian riots and a few killings here and there it is very rare. Another reason for this is because missionaries in the guise of Social Aid organisations actually have an ulterior motive of converting poor Muslims of a village to Christian faith by fooling them.This often enrages the local population.
Talking of non Pakistan links you can google Amnesty International/Gujarat genocide and you will get the information. You can also google the name Garda Ghista who wrote a book on the Gujarat genocide. She is an American of German origin and has lived and worked in the Middle East as well as India. She lived in India for a good seven years during the tenure of rule of the BJP and was actually there during the Gujarat massacres. She brings out the eye witness truth in her book.
Another book about the topic we are discussing is the famous one called ‘The Clash Within- Democracy,Religious Violence and India’s future’ by a brilliant Professor of Chicago University called Martha Nussbaum.
To make it easier buy a DVD of Rakesh Sharma titled ‘The Final Solution’ I am sure this is banned in India. This title were the same words used by Hitler before the Holocaust of the Jews.
India is still a democracy in many ways but not as it shows itself to be.
Pakistan is yet to get a perfect leader.I am not afraid to criticise Pakistan too. This could have a great country but it blew up her chances by internecine quarrels and assumed ethnic superiority. Greed and selfishness by dishonest leaders is destroying the country from within. The US is just waiting for the ripe apple to fall into their hands.Pakistan’s nuclear capability is irksome in the eyes of these Western Powers who support Israel.An Islamic country with an atomic weapon is the biggest shock they received.So their dream is to denuclearise Pakistan for which they are backed completely by India.
India does not need an atomic bomb. Neither does Pakistan. But remember that it was India that first started it all. Pakistan had to comply for self defence.It had no choice.
Usman, I agree. To add more, Chankiya teaching and strategies for its follower had always been about initiating aggression and fascism against all other religions, regions and races, within or outside Akhundd Bharat…
Rezan,
I never told that Gujarat Incident is Good or something else, Killing of others is a sin, Every one condems Anti-Sikh, Anti-Christian and Anti-etc Killings.
The Gujarat Killings is condemable, But It is not a Genocide, If it is a genocide then there should be no Muslim Living in Gujarat, Is that the case? Genocide is something what Gengis Khan did.
There were cases of mass murder, but it is condemnable, Killing 100 people makes nothing better than killing 1000.
Let me not start a flame bait here…
Pakistan will not settle down unless they have Kashmir in their hands.
Indias will not support the disintegration of the nation till the last Indian survives.
The peace talks are useless, Each person gets time to enhance Militry Power, Pakistan will continue to fuel terrorism in India, Again India also will follow the steps of Pakistan in aiding Balochistan rebels.
If there is war, then there will be nucler holocast, You and I will be dying…. our grandchildren will born without limbs…
Life is beautiful, We are making it ugly.
I have read clash within Democracy, I will reas and see others.
Thank you.
Dear Pakistani friends,
It appears as if Ansari has lost his job & is one of the affectees of this global recession(as it has hit India severely).He is out of work & in frustration writing on Pakistani forums.He is an Idle ass & has nothing to do other than responding to your posts.
Please pay no attention to him & ignore him as he is on an agenda of spoiling our precious time.
Ansari,
Having said all this all my sympathies are with u…..lol
Ha ha ha… Thanks for your sympthathies, But I don’t need it, I have not lost my job during recession, even if I lose by this time I have enough stuff to get another Job. We have huge Opportunities. Thank you.
At one point you are clear, I am wasting my time….. by replying to trolls like you.
Mr Ansari . Please read the attached link . Finally the great Indian nation has launched its most potent weapon against the Kashmir .
http://paknationalists.googlegroups.com/web/india-soldiers-female-copy.jpg?gda=r26qH1AAAABv3-1V-MS-4rKAySfwJo08KPO7M7C7inqHffkuYPAnhfIBuTZ4QiZkifhJtuZX7-r4uSwZSU8deXgXILKmEJK7bcVT3VtYGKLco-_l-8AzjQ
[Admin Note: URLs from e-mail inbox are not shared URLs. Kindly recheck and post a different URL.]
Throughout the Indian history , the Indian women was offered as the great prize to all the Invaders . All the great Indian / Warriors offered their daughters and sisters to the Invaders . The history show that The Great Mughal King Akbar had over 5000 Indian women in his harem . These were daughters and sisters of the Great Hindu Rajahs , Nawabas and Kings .
The last invaders were British > They had so much fun and left behind a sub nation called ANGLO INDIAN , children of British men and Indian women .
In Pakistan we repel Invaders and kill them , we do not give them our women .
The Great Indian Nation . FUNNY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Hey, Those are NCC Carades, How are they releted to Kashmir?
You can tell anything and everything…. but that cannot be true about Hindu Rajhas…. Raping a women does not show the masculine superiority… You did the same in Bangladesh in 1970….
Never ever touch a women without their will, If you touch you will fall…..
In Hindu mythology Ramayana and Mahabaratha are Examples….. For Pakistanis 1971 is the example.
And when have the Pakistan repeled Invaders? India Invaded East Pakistan in 1971…. What the pakistanis were doing?
It is not the great… It is the most greatest.
@Omer
First you told
“The above link contains the content that is neither Pakistani nor influenced at any level. It is only shared on Haqeeqat.Org, not even compiled. Each and every post has been provided with references , you didn’t even care to see the links, references and sources in the above! Had you done that, you’d have known clearly! Even an early teenager child would know that but to your specific approach- and as it seems- you do not want to!”
I replied back that I dont see any links in your article.
Now you are telling like
“That post is an individual opinion shared, not a case study thus does not require any URLS!”
Please tell me what is the logic? I don’t want to embarass you, But I am sorry, An India mind cannot understand this.
Going forward, Let us have a Healthy debate. Thank you.
The reply of mine you just quoted above was in reply to a specific link i.e. “Getting Away with Murders – Gunjrat Muslim Genocides” hence applies to that!!!
The later quote is another reply to another topic you yourself queries. So try NOT to mix up stuff in your mind, stay focused and attentive, at least to yourself. This way, you’d find an easy logic for that Indian mind you pointed above.
No Brother Mohammed Ansari, such is the behavior I already said won’t let you pay a healthy part in just any discussion, here or elsewhere. You should, therefore, kindly give yet another attentive look to my request made above in my second last comment.
Thanks
Fair enough!
Dear Mr.Ansari,
it seems that u r a fanatic hindu just use a muslim name to demoralize pakistanis.being a muslim one could not forget the masacares that took place in India several times.attrocities agaist muslims in India are well known to the rest of world.
let the USA and allaied force get crushed in Afghanistan then see the cinario of South asia, will be changed.
this is for ur information that within 2-3 years the western regim has to be disintegrated due to trillions of expenses in Dollars. which could be beared for a limited time.
now u see the cry of USA and Indians. they see their near future.
Ha ha ha….. USA… are now fools…. you can dream what you like.
Admin: Does these types of discussions get us anywhere… I don’t think it is a fair discussion.
To Admin,
Fine it does not get us anywhere, but why these types of comments are directed only against Indians?
Do you think Pakistanis are posting fair discussions all the time, If your answer is YES, then there is something we need to check.
Thank you.
Today I open up the website called 2 Bharaat Rakshak ” . This site deal with all matters concerning Indian Defense Industry and Defense Forces . It also deal with the History of Indian army . I claim the Indian Army to be only 250 years old when it was formed as a Militia by the British ( Gorara Sahib to Hindu Nation ) .
I had often wondered why the Indian will name their weapons , Naval Ships etc after Generals who were beaten and killed by the Muslim rulers of India . This website has given the answer in a clear manners . The Indian do not consider the Muslim Indian Rulers to be Indian , they are considered alien . However the Gora Sahib are appreciated as beneficial rulers and awarded honors accordingly .
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/History.html
I will invite all to read this link .
Aai Qaudai Azam tera Ahsann hai ahsaan . I am greatful to all our Pakistani Independence leaders in particular Quaid e Azam M A Jinnah , Allam Iqbal for their totally great foresight and vision .
Pakistan Zindabaad
“I had often wondered why the Indian will name their weapons , Naval Ships etc after Generals who were beaten and killed by the Muslim rulers of India.”
Can you tell the Indian Rulers who were killed by muslim Rulers?
It seems that the History Text books in India do not tell the truth . Who do you think were ruling your country for a 1000 year . The Muslim were rulling your Country boy . Surely The Muslims must have defeated someone in India to conquer the whole country . You Pritivi Raj Choohan was defeated and killed like a dog by a Muslim . Do I still need to give you names of those Muslim Warriors .
You don’t know what Pakistanies can do.According to me Pakistan is best in army.
Yes, We have seen what Pakistan Soliders can do in 1971, 1965 and 1999.
Thank you.
1971 was a Civil War in Pakistan . India just sided with one of the Pakistani Combatants . And without the support of Bengali Mukti Bahani ( est Pakistani traitors ) to India , the result would have been different .
1965 . India Attacked most battles were fought in Indian Territories . Indian asked for peace and ceasefire .
1999 . Again all fighting was in Indian controlled areas . Indian were defenders not attackers . Pakistan incursion did not fully achieve its objective . No at worst s stalemate .
All blast etc are in India sponsored and mostly carried out by Pakistani . If you Indian so great try doing same in Pakistan . We will kick your ass .
You can console yourself. Not a bad habit.
its the ultimate truth dear beloved Faizan
Anyone like to comment on Chinese incursion into India ? I am wondering where the great Indian Warrior Class have disappeared ? . Now Indian can show how they deal with someone of their own size ( China ) . I would specially welcome feed back from the Flag Flying Indian called Mr Ansari .
Thank you.
[Admin Note: Kindly use a valid and your own email address, or your comment shall be considered as spam.]
Chinese being on Pakistan side is part of Indian Pakistan Military Balance . The same way USSR used to be for benefit of Indian .
What are you telling?
Haider237, You hatred for India / Hindus has made you blind to reality. Pakistan is one messed up nation built on hatred for the non-muslim. (They claim they have respect for the people of the book .. total BS!!!) I spoke to many pakistanis and very few can admit to the problems in Pakistan is pakistani responsibility. They always blame India, Israel, America or the West for their problems. A supposedly Conspiracy Theory. India is a secular nation, whose majority happens to be Hindus (well over 80%) and it has many minorities including Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc, who are given equal right to practice and preach. India has a lot of problems and are trying to tackle it. It is NOT closing its eyes and busy blaming others. It is looking at the future, it is focusing on its economy. Pakistanis have a hard time swallowing this! India is a great nation, it is very powerful nation, and becoming even more powerful and influential. It has left pakistan behind a long time ago. India is not focused on Pakistan, it is looking at a bigger picture, a bigger role in this world. Stop dreaming of some Caliphate ruling the world.. Never will happen. The world has changed, people have changed and are changing, they are slowly expanding their mind.
Dear Indians,
u are proud to have good researches in military hi-tech but can u proof in which field u have done excel.
i think ur Missil program,LCA,Arjun Tank all got sracped.
u were claiming to have indigenous production but failed to proof them in reality.
on the other hand pakistan did very well.
Missile program,JF 17, Al khalid, pakistani proved their iron not only in test level but also in war fields of Sri Lanka.
where India and pakistanis arms were used from both sides.
u pple just reference 1971, and 1948 like kidding Mr.Ansari.
infact in 1971 we got defeated because of internal political matters not by the so-called indian army tectecs.
u indians are so fool have no idia by urselves just do what ever Israel and US direct u, do not know the cosequences of ur “shaikhian” threatening to pakistan.
u indians claim having big economy,big army did u forget the USSR’s economy of that times. do u forget the recent USA and NATO economy and military might. if u do not understand my comments then plz check the recent recession.
how it is occured? how the Eastern Eorup got freed dom,like east germany. how the Berlin wall was broken.what was the root causes.
u indians are vegetarins thats why u lack these idians and confrantations, if u r not agree with me see ur own history.
Ha ha ha….. Don’t see the History always….. Believe in yourself. If you have conquered India in 1700’s Dont think you will do the same in 2009.
You are asking us to see our own History, but you are not seeing your own History of 1971 and 1999.
We should not arguing like children. The arguments are getting more and more immature and too subjective.
Both India and Pakistan are countries still dependant on the West for their survival.Both are arming themselves to the teeth with weapons from countries who want see a holocaust in the sub-continent.For this time it will not be who wins or who loses. It will be South Asians wiping out South Asians from the map and leaving behind a deadly form of radiation that will haunt and affect other neighbouring countries for years and years to come. This is probably exactly what the US and Israel want so that they can take complete control of the sub-continent too just like they have taken control of the Middle East after illegally invading and destroying a once powerful and ancient civilisation namely Iraq.The US with the help of the British is desperately trying to occupy Afghanistan in order to control Central Asia China and Iran.All this talk of Taliban, insurgents etc. is mere hogwash and a blatant lie.These Governments of the West and Israel are master in lying and denying. This is how they control the world.
Unfortunately Indians do not see this nor understand the reality . They have not been taught the correct history of the sub-continent. There appears to be a chronic sense of inferiority complex among all Indians. They are obsessed with the notion that they were conquered and humiliated as a race. If this is so why do they still look up to the British with servitude and admiration. It was in reality it was the British who looked upon them with total contempt. It was the British who raped,pillaged and completely looted the country’s resources and left India to bleed when they finally were kicked out thanks to Gandhi and the brave Muslim revolutionaries like Shoukat Ali,and Mohammed Ali whose names one can be sure are not even mentioned by Hindu historians who tend to show everything negative about Muslims but appear to overlook the atrocities of the British.Indian Hindus do not even know who is Tipu Sultan the hero who sent terror into the hearts of the British by showing them his rocket power.
India it must be remembered was steeped in superstition and living in seclusion. If it was not for Muslim rule India would have still been like the Amazon jungles.It was Muslim rule that projected India to the whole world as a powerful wealthy nation that became the envy of the world and attracted the pirates of the West.
The fact that there are 86% Hindus in India is a living proof that Islam was not forced upon the Hindus.If it was like it is often exaggerated then the whole of India would have been very nearly Muslim. So the Hindu s better get this straight. In Islam there is no compulsion in religion as stated in the holy Quran.
British with their divide and rule policy made it convenient for themselves and created a permanent rift between the two communities.
When they left, power was in the hands of the Hindus who sidelined the Muslims in the Congress.It was this blunder that prompted Jinnah and other Muslim leaders to demand for a separate state for Muslims. A state where Muslims could live in pride and dignity practising their own culture and religion just like other Islamic countries of the world. Unfortunately even this did not occur in the right way as large Muslim populations were left behind in India at the mercy of unforgiving Hindu leaders who did not even recognise them. Whatever good state the Muslims are today it is merely due to their own efforts and their unswerving faith in their religion.
Hindus should treat all Indians equally and stop pining about past history.
They should be honest and truthful about their wrong policy on Kashmir that has become the main factor of discontent between the two countries.
Kashmir should be made at least independent as was promised in 1948.
India should understand that going back on a promise or any form of dishonest policy is the root cause of political instability in the sub-continent. The other factors naturally follow as a consequence. So cure the disease and not merely worry about the behaviour of the patient.
Rezan,
No Indian is war mongering, We never want to wage a war with Pakistan.
FYI, We are not at all dependent on the West, We buy the equipments with our own hard earned money not with any Aid money.
US can attack Iran with Pakistan base, Pakistan can never ever tell ‘NO’ to US, Can you? And they striked Afgan because of Taliban, not for China or Iran, They have better options like Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam etc…. Holding Afganistan is too expensive for them. With that they can build half a dozen Nimitz class Aircraft carrier.
Hum, Even if we are not taught about the history, We can learn from the Internet…. and we are not fools to read that India lost all the three wars against Pakistan.
We are not worried about who ruled India 100 years ago or 200 hundred years ago, Why are you assuming something about us which we are not?
It was the British rule which made India Prosper, I am sorry the Muslim Rule is the grave period in Indian History except some great Kings like Akbar, It the the Hindus who built the Taj Mahal, I am not speaking in favour of Hindus… We Indian Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and Christians are living peacefully and happily without any headaches like Taliban, We give equal rights to our women, We will not beat our women in public or in home, A man who uses violence against a weaker sex(women) is not a man… Also we will not touch a women without their will…. Only pimp’s does that job.
Why Pakistan have not vacated POK, That is also the Promise that Pakistan made to UN…. Remember we do not adhere to two nation theory.
I hope you dreamed yesterday and telling those dreams to us…. Anyway Speak what ever you want, Kashmir is an integrated part of India… Periods, If you want to stage a holocast, We are ready for it… You have nothing to lost, We have everything to lose.
You can send the Jihadi’s, you will have our patience running out one day…. You use all Nuclear bombs on us and we will do the same on you, if Pakistan survives…. tell the tale to your children, If India survives, We will tell the tale to our children.
If you have guts send your jihadi’s to meet our Soliders not unarmed civilians, All those Jihadis are cowards…. Seems Allah(I have in no way degrading Muslim religion or Musilm god) have asked them to be cowards, They are not truly men… We can call them neither man nor woman shortly no. 9.
What a shame!
Have any of bread fighting dogs?? Let me tell you that the one with the best race never growls or barks before or during the fight. On the other hand the lame or the Lucy ones never stop doing so. The one with a better race dies figting but never backs off. While the Lucy ones bark from the edge of the street with their 1 billion Langra, Khurkee, Kana friends and family and still they don’t have the guts to pounce on one fine dog in front of them. Infact that one dog makes them run with one stare (no growl).
This dog example is only for those hardcore friends who think they are better than the other by just posting emotional posts.
For the other Indians and Pakistanis, I would just say that the harami Gora enjoys and ridicules our race for what we are doing just right now. For us to be better we have to leave past behind us and move forward. ‘Love our nation and respect others’ should be the message here. But unfortunatley we are not like that we like to bark and stare at each other and definitely love to make show for the West.
Neither of us are superior to each other. In some ways Pakistan is better than India and in the other India is better.
Ha ha ha…. nice imagination and stories about dogs. Come on yaar, Stare now…. I would love to see it…..
We Indians never want to Unify the county by annexing Pakistan with it… It is the biggest mistake If we dream(also worst dream) like that.
Forget about Kashmir, Because Kashmir is the Integral part of India, Recognize LOC as International border and you do your job and We do ours?
And can you let me know in which field Pakistan is better than India, Can you kindly provide me relevant URL to educate myself?
One more thing,
Stop telling lies to each other. This is the hate and war hysteria that our politicians use.
We talk of war as if it is a game. One should be serious about it as any such instance this time around would bring such devastation that we are not even able to imagine.
No one wants a war with Pakistan, How do you feel if 10 Hindu Indian terrorist land in Karachi and use very sophisticated weapons and kill the unarmed civilians and children at will?
Will you say that you will be OK with it?
What will you do if the earning members of the family die in the terrorist attacks like this? Who will look after their family?
You people have no ambition, no future and no opportunity, but we have a lot of ambition, more opportunities and We are very eager to come up in life, Please don’t cause pain in our lives, We have hell lot of other problems other than Pakistan.
You are right Pal!
You have a lot of other problems than Pakistan e.g. Bangladesh, China, Sri Lanka, Nepal etc. etc.
You certainly have more opportunities to come in life, if thant is what you call life in India. Please tell me how many people diee of hunger in India? How many sleep in footpath? How many live in Jhoorparpaties? and so on …. We are humble, poor and failed nation, but yet no one dies with hunger in Pakistan.
But it is good to hear that someone hardcore in India does’nt want war with Pakistan. But still you keep on highlighting the Mumbai attacks as if it was the only incident b/w the countries. Yet, I must say the attacks are not yet confirmed that the same were carried out with the consent of Pakistan Govt. or any of its institutions. May be May be some elements of Pakistan be invlolved in the incident. This action was, however, openly critised by all leaders of Pakistan in the worst form and they are even helping you to curb these elements even though we don’t have any billateral agreement for crack down terrorist at the other end. Still you talk rubbish about Pakistan.
If you could recall I mentioned ‘Love my nation respect your Country’. I would never talk anything that is hardcore for your nation as we are not made like this. Again we have a stare to do it all. Ha Ha Ha …
Dear Pal! you can see only Mumbai attacks. What about the Samjhota express. Your own intelligence held resposible your serving Colonel on the issue. Let me please put these questions to you
What will you do if the earning members of the family die in the terrorist attacks like this? Who will look after their family?
Please let me know if you do have the answers for the above. This does not mean that we considering Mumbai attacks valid. We still think it was aweful and should not happen in future. But when we extend hands for mutual co-operation for curbing these elements you are not up for it. All knowing with the fact that you have drained out rivers and making every possible effort to disrupt Balochistan and Swat.
So please leave us alone and stop being innocent as you are not.
On last thing, if you research so much about everything please let me know what would be the revenues from Gawadar port in shape of transit trade alone.
Mind you my friend it is projected to be half the budget of entire Indian estate. So don’t worry about our lives just care about yours.
Chao my friend.
Be happy and take a chill pill.
Bangladesh – I hope we can contain them, not a great issue, There is still some faithfulness left in them.
China – As I already told, 50 Billion US $ annual trade will solve most of the issues, They will not risk anything against us… It is a suicide against both India and China.
Srilanka – Not a great deal….. They will not act against our interests, Mahindra Rajapakse told ‘Nothing is more important to me more than what she (Sonia Gandhi) thinks’
Please provide the estimate of how many people dying in India…. Provide the relevent URL and also provide fact that no one dies of hunger in Pakistan.
There are always people who sleep in streets, even in US I have seen people sleeping in streets, These are the people who would never want to earn a living for themselves. I hope no one should be worried about people like this.
Can I tell you something, Pakistan will never ever do anything against these LeT and other anti-India terrorists… It is going to be one year after mumbai incidents, You have accepted it has been plotted in Pakistan soil, till now you are dragging, dragging and will be dragging forever.
If something happens in Pakistan, It is plotted by RAW, because all the Pakistanis are saints and why have you not provided your proof to international community and dragged everyone to your side? Do that… every one will believe you.
Hum… Mutual co-operation… first can you hang Zakiur-rehaman-Lakivi… You told that Mumbai incident is not valid… You know he is the plotter, you can hang him to earn mutual trust, I hope he is not Jinnah or Gandhi of Pakistan.
We are not innocent, If we are innocent then China and Pakistan would have divided India within them selves like China did in Tibet, We would have been nomards like the Jews and losers like Palestaniens… We are a peace loving nation, If you strike India, we will retaliate. As simple as that.
Is Gawadar port operational? I will google and get back to you.
Who cares for you? your army will do it… Like they have protected their Headquarters.
I have to go now, Will see you soon.
“Mind you my friend it(Gawadar Port) is projected to be half the budget of entire Indian estate.”
Wow Zeeshan! your knowledge is excellent! I think you need to learn to check international reports instead of local reports. Gwadar Port have been estimated at between $23.6 billion and $42.2 billion. Indian budget of 2009-10 was 206.282 billion.
206 billion is really half then 42 billion? It shows how good you are in mathematics or how aware are you about current issues. You’ll ask a link so here is the link:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IC22Df02.html
We needn’t worry about anything and you are right that nobody dies in Pakistan from hunger because he killed by their issues, some of them become terrorist and die. Women’s get raped and when go for justice Pakistani justice ask for 5 witness who has seen rape. Wow! amazing and this is not a story, this is an report of an reporter who lived in Pakistan.
Aside from the usual Nationalist fervor that follows this type of discussion, the reality is that Pakistan is a failed state as President, Barack Obama has publicly stated.
I travel extensively in South Asia .. have many business interests in Lahore and North and South India. The biggest advantage India has on their side is Time. Pakistan’s greatest enemies are the virus of Islamic fundamentalism that will destroy the country within the next decade. The US backed government is hated.. showing a western face to the rest of the world. A democratically elected Pak government would extend Afghan type Talibanism… you know the guys that believe music is sin, and that women need to be hidden away to prevent men from sinning. Pakistan fights a costly war to add Kashmir, while they have no control over the Tribal regions in the north. Why even call that area Pakistan? The country is broke and without UN and US aid would be bankrupt. So the US funds Pak .. so they can buy Chinese weapons. At the end the population has nothing better to do than to give suicide bombers to the world.
Meanwhile in India, you have an independently developed vibrant democracy. A country growing at 10+ % a year, with a growing middle class. Above all … all religions are respected, and people have the ability to become successful. The author did a great job of outlining India’s military strength. I hardly doubt India wants to fight a war with Pakistan ? What is there to be gained ? The territory is a cess pool.. there are no assets worth taking… no oil, or industry. The Indians could have taken Pakistan while the troops were in sight of Islamabad in 1965. It’s a worthless prize.
Reggie
October 10, 2009 at 06:47
Haider237, You hatred for India / Hindus has made you blind to reality. Pakistan is one messed up nation built on hatred for the non-muslim. (They claim they have respect for the people of the book .. total BS!!!) I spoke to many pakistanis and very few can admit to the problems in Pakistan is pakistani responsibility. They always blame India, Israel, America or the West for their problems. A supposedly Conspiracy Theory. India is a secular nation, whose majority happens to be Hindus (well over 80%) and it has many minorities including Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc, who are given equal right to practice and preach. India has a lot of problems and are trying to tackle it. It is NOT closing its eyes and busy blaming others. It is looking at the future, it is focusing on its economy. Pakistanis have a hard time swallowing this! India is a great nation, it is very powerful nation, and becoming even more powerful and influential. It has left pakistan behind a long time ago. India is not focused on Pakistan, it is looking at a bigger picture, a bigger role in this world. Stop dreaming of some Caliphate ruling the world.. Never will happen. The world has changed, people have changed and are changing, they are slowly expanding their mind.
Hey buddy,
India has better weapons and large military force, so it cannot win a war against Pakistan…..(Same Haider comments) There are equal to India in all the fields… but no one cared to give me the areas in which Pakistan is equal to India.
They will never ever accept…. They gave up in all the wars with India but never give up on what they say…. According to them they are greater than the Indians all the time… No one can change this like Sun rises in the east.
pakistani’s are delusional. For some odd reason, they feel they are superior, they make up stuff as they go along. I see them turn green when they see Hindus better than they are. I think the country should be renamed Delusion-i-stan
How dare you accuse me of hating anyone . You do not know anything about me . However I have witnessed at first hand Hindu Fascist behavior . So far Indians have one or two battles . The war is not over yet . The area now called Pakistan has been ruled by its local peoples . The invaders were fought and defeated very swiftly . Just remember the last Battle of Panipat between the best of the Hindu Armies headed my the Maratha leader and Army from Area east of Sutluj under Abdali . The great Hindu army was severely defeated . The Maratha forces were amred with the best weapons from French and other parts of Europe , whereas the Abali forces has old fashioned arms . Last time all your Nations arms and money could not save you . Sooner or later the Muslim living in east of Sutluj will finally defeat you .
Pakistan Zindabad
Oh…. Just now I read this news in Pakistani News Paper Dawn.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/metropolitan/04-explosion-heard-peshawar-qs-04
Also I read this news in the same Dawn.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-Suicide-terror-keeps-Pakistanis-home-qs-01
Speak about today…. This minute…. this instant… there is no guarantee that a normal Pakistani Citizen will see tomorrow’s Morning… that is the way your country is now…. You are speaking about a war which happened 100’s of years ago. See the reality.
“How dare you accuse me of hating anyone . You do not know anything about me . However I have witnessed at first hand Hindu Fascist behavior ….Last time all your Nations arms and money could not save you . Sooner or later the Muslim living in east of Sutluj will finally defeat you.”
Haider237, if that does not sound like hatred, I don’t know what is. Let say your fantasy does come true and pakistan defeats India and takes over … do you think Hindus will stay idle! You are living in a fantasy world. Your mullas are feeding you a lot of bs. The reality is the mullas as scared, the world is becoming a smaller place, information and ideas are rapidly spreading across the globe. Muslims are being exposed to different ways of thinking. They are scared their flocks are slowly drifting away. Look at the muslim majority nations, clerics in Malaysia and Indonesia, are giving out edicts preventing muslims from practicing an exercise program such as Yoga, and they are supposedly more tolerant muslim nations!!! Malaysia does not allow muslims to convert to another religion. Mullas threaten them with edicts, violence and sometimes death … some supported by the government. This even happens to muslims living in non-muslim nations. I agree, the Hindu extremists are terrible and cannot be tolerated .. but they cannot be compared to muslim extremists! The atrocities committed by muslim leaders in the name of their religion is incomparable. The blood flowed from their violence would fill all the seas in the world. Pakistanis, more or less cleansed the non-muslims in that country, now they are killing each other. Haider, you are right, the war is not over, there is a civil war already brewing in Pakistan. Don’t worry about India, Israel, or the West. I think you should be worried about your fellow muslims screwing your own country.
Pakistani army is the best army ever in the world and has the capacity to defeat its enemies either external or eternal. And as the Pakistani i am with Pakistani army. As a nation our moral is so high touching the sky. Pakistani army is the best institution in whole over the Asia. i pray for the Allah that may Allah gives his protection and may live long pakistan inshallah.
Dilawar, forget praying 5 times a day, make it 1000 times a day for your fantasy to come true. Morals .. funny ..are you a comedian?
What good is the indian economic boom when low caste hindus in india raise the PAKISTANI flag on your independence day. I find it amusing that ‘incredible india’despite all its economic and military superioriy is scared shitless of pakistan. and btw i am pround to be muslim and a pakistani and honsetly i woulnt mind it if a hindu or a sikh became the chief of our army as long as he could do a good job.
My Dear Child Hamza,
when low caste hindus in India raise the PAKISTANI flag on our independence day, it does not mean all the low caste hindus in India hate India.
By the way can you provide me a valid URL for “when low caste hindus in India raise the PAKISTANI flag on your independence day” for my knowledge, I hope it is not your imagination.
US is scared of Taliban… FYI the Military budget of US is more than 650 Billion US Dollars per year…. Campared to this Taliban military budget is nothing…. Yet US is scared…. because US has everything to lose, but Taliban has nothing to lose…. The same applies to India and Pakistan…. Pakistan is a terrorist state which has nothing to lose.
Don’t worry a Sikh or a Hindu can never ever become a Brigadier in Pakistan Army’s History….. Army cheif is too much for a hindu or a Sikh in Pakistan… This shows how ignorant you are.
Economy is one thing flag hosting by kafer haters is another! What is your problem as a Pakistani?
What is meant by Kafer haters?
He can answer that question in one word : India !
From the below explination from Rezan, I don’t think it is a sin to be a ‘Kafir’, you believe in yours and I believe in mine, Why are you degrading our stand?
‘Kafirs’ are defined as those who do not believe in one God or do not submit their will to one God. Instead they associate other living beings or things with God and actually worship these things. They even worship people in spite of there being a God. This is s called ‘kuffar’ and considered as anathema by all believing Muslims of the world.
In simple terms the word ‘Kafir’ means non-believers in the Truth of one God’s existence.
Logically speaking it is your belief, It is my belief that there are 330 million gods in Hindu religion, It is my friends beliefs that there is no God at all. It is my another friends belief that Sun is the God as it is the ultimate source of energy.
Can you prove me that there is only one god? and can I prove you that there are 330 million gods? I hope both of us can’t prove it.
Anyway thanks a lot for your explination.
Can you prove me that there is only one god? and can I prove you that there are 330 million gods? I hope both of us can’t prove it.
its not a fair assumption… if u cant prove it doesnt mean we cant either! for best details and evidence please go through a book called Quran… talk after u have done reading
“For best details and evidence please go through a book called Quran….”
That is a rather simplistic answer, Humna, to put it mildly, and easily countered by hindus. You want proof that there are 330 million gods? Read the hindu Puranas!
See how easy that was? Think a little before you talk
ur friend had quoted “Can you prove me that there is only one god? and can I prove you that there are 330 million gods? I hope both of us can’t prove it.”
what i said was an answer to his lack of surity that i can prove my point of One God! he himself confessed that he MIGHT not be able to prove his standpoint, i didnt say this!
I was not seriously offering proof of the existence of 330 million gods, but rather merely pointing to the fallacy of your “proof”.
I read the English translated version of Quran, but I am sorry to say I am not at all impressed due to the following phrases.
Qur’an (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.” There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to these verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of “persecution” (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until “religion is for Allah.” The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.
Qur’an (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”
Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.” Muhammad’s instructions to his men prior to a military raid.
4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.
4:34 … As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly) …
You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity. If they refrain from these things, they have the right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their own persons.
I am not having a habit of telling my dislikes specific to Religion… But you asked for it.
All I could read and get is that it was written by a person to his advantage, Have you ever tried to cross verify the Quran writings with universal truth… Oh even cross verification is not allowed as per Quran.
It is purely my belief and you asked for it and I replied to it, Not meant to cause any pain to anyone.
In this era of freedom of technology, often do people ignore practicing their right of freedom of research!
This is not new what you mentioned up there. Decades ago people of different religions had reservations regarding these verses of Holy Quran due to their excessive misinterpreted by the enemies of Islam.
The interesting thing is that, they all- you inclusive- quote either the partial phrase or out of context phrases from these verses! Such people who raise fingers do not even care to read the full verse or the contextual backs or forths. It wouldn’t be wrong to assume that they do that because their purpose is to offend and blame only!
Well, to confess and while giving them the benefit of doubt, I agree that a simple and immature person who has no resources of research and is still living & thinking inside-the-box, can think this way and believe in flip side of the coin only, because he doesn’t himself bothered to turn the coin to the other side. In this case, his reservation and query regarding these verses is acceptable, unavoidably!
Anyway, by the words of yours and the way you write, I assume that you’re at least SSC passed and can understand english well. Now, since you said you read the english translated version of the Holy Quran, I believe you missed reading it all or missed the parts of verses, that could be the only reason you focused on half the picture.
For your understanding, I’d like to quote the full with my humble explanation below:
Our religions does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah.
The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder:
وَلاَ تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ
“..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151)
and Allah says in the Qur’an:
وَلاَ تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ وَمَنْ قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلاَ يُسْرِفْ فِي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنصُورًا
“Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33)
According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See al-Ma’idah 5:32)
However, your reservation that, then how come the Holy Qur’an says? The answer is simple and that is “you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after“. Read the full text and see what is said:
وَقَاتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُمْ مِنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنْ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِنْدَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِنْ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاءُ الْكَافِرِينَ فَإِنْ انتَهَوْا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلَّهِ فَإِنْ انتَهَوْا فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَاتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنْ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُوا عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)
Also, since it’s mention in Surah Nisa, verse 89, lets read it complete too:
وَدُّوا لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُوا فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاءً فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُوا مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءَ حَتَّى يُهَاجِرُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدْتُمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُوا مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَى قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَاءُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَنْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُوا قَوْمَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ فَإِنْ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْا إِلَيْكُمْ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلاً سَتَجِدُونَ آخَرِينَ يُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يَأْمَنُوكُمْ وَيَأْمَنُوا قَوْمَهُمْ كُلَّ مَا رُدُّوا إِلَى الْفِتْنَةِ أُرْكِسُوا فِيهَا فَإِنْ لَمْ يَعْتَزِلُوكُمْ وَيُلْقُوا إِلَيْكُمْ السَّلَمَ وَيَكُفُّوا أَيْدِيَهُمْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأُوْلَئِكُمْ جَعَلْنَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطَانًا مُبِينًا
“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)
Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one any where? These verses were revealed by Allah to Prophet Muhammad (Salla Allah Ta’ala Alaihi Wa Salam) at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.
It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims and non-Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote several of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.
The thing to understand is, even if it’s a non-Muslim or a Muslim who misinterprets, it’s their individual mean & stance, it’s in no way Islam’s!!!
Omer,
Ok, I understand the context in which those versus are told by Mohammed.
But what explination do you have for Talidan treatement of Women and bombing of civilian places by these terrorists?
You cannot tell that Islam and Quran is no way releted to these terrorists, These Taliban tell that they are guardian to Islam.
You may be a person who pray for 5 times a day, but I dont even pray one time a day.
Who gives the right to destroy US Twin Towes, Mumbai hotels and Pakistani Markets?
I heard that Pakistani’s never believe that Peshawar bomb was planted by Taliban.
If they hit Twin tower and kill 4000 people it is good and if they do it against you, then it is not a possible scenario. I dont see the logic.
If the teachings in Quran is good then it should have prevented people doing these terrorist activities against unarmed civilians.
Let’s leave Quran here, It is a holy book and I dont want to comment on its contents.
Brother, I’m happy to see that you could understand.
Like the last line of my reply reads, certainly you can not associate an individual or an organization’s actions of such sort with Holy Scriptures in the light of above explanations.
Now, the cowards’ strategy is that they always try to and find out reasons and associate logic to back their actions. Like i said, they misinterpret and/or misguide simple people, esp. the ones who haven’t read & researched such scriptures on their own! To tell you the truth, NOTHING IN THE WORLD JUSTIFIES ACTS OF VIOLENCE, neither Torah, Bible, Geeta nor Quran!
I am aware of several Hindu organizations misinterpreting Geeta and telling their followers & members to be violent against other religions (esp. Christianity & Islam) because Geeta says so. Brother, i have always been unable to digest that Geeta reads so. I believe that it is not from Geeta at all the violence they preach, it is their own kaput brain than misleads them and simple people!
Had the Taliban, esp. TTP been following Holy Quran and Sunnah, they would never do such acts, any human who has read the said, canNOT commit such huge crimes in anyway!
We totally and collectively disown such personnel and organizations like the Muslims of India did upon the Mumbai Massacre, they collectively disowned those terrorist and even restricted their bodies to be buried in Muslim graveyards.
Whenever there’s an act of terrorism conducted, my heart cries as bad as yours might have upon Mumbai Massacre. My country, good or bad, is my motherland and I love it unconditionally, that’s only why am concerned. Each and every of us Pakistani- be it Muslim or Christian, Hindu or Parsi- want to get rid of that bunch of idiots asap, too!
I hope and pray, soon shall we!
But what explination do you have for Talidan treatement of Women and bombing of civilian places by these terrorists?
You cannot tell that Islam and Quran is no way releted to these terrorists, These Taliban tell that they are guardian to Islam.
Sir, as i have quoted several times before… before assuming things on ur own please read the quran with the help of a scholar! again u r have dilusions abt the islamic teachings!
yes indeed quran is not related to these terrorists. anyone guilty of killing an innocent person does not enjoy the label of being a muslim according to islam. u r talking about civilian bombings… even in a WAR a muslim is NOT ALLOWED to hurt an unarmed person, woman, old, sick, and children. then how can u expect such a religion to allow innocent killings for whatever reasons. these people lack insight into the true spirit of islam. to understand this u again need to go back into history.
to give the specifics please note: during the invasion of afghanistan by former USSR, presently known as Russia, US officials had distributed special books and pamplets among the people living near the afghan border. those pamphlets contained everything that would force those people to go for the last form of jihad known as war against the intruders. Talibans… as the name goes were a group of students who were trained for a military strike against russia! Now that the enemy was defeated everyone quickly forgot them until 9/11 came about! now mind u there are ALLEGATIONS against them that they were the ones who destroyed twin towers. For a second think!!!! where did they get this technology worth making USA cry? hmmm… isnt the answer obvious… USA itself had allowed them such special knowledge during the cold war era… whose fault is it anyway? OURS? i cant see that! Now these set of people are said to have destroyed twin towers… proofs are still not known!! just like the weapons of mass destruction that were never found in iraq! unfortunately again we are subject to the subversion techniques of the american government… u might disagree now but in 20years u will cry the same
Now with the peshawar bombing… what makes u so sure that taliban did that?? proof? gosh… please learn to be credible while arguing on an international plane! I disapprove ur saying not because i support the taliban or anything… but simply because i dun have any prove to justify my bias… so i would rather reserve my comments until culprits are exposed!
If the teachings in Quran is good then it should have prevented people doing these terrorist activities against unarmed civilians.
Again, without reading the quran u cant assume that it teaches violence by any means! it does prevent MUSLIMS from harming others… however with anyone who lacks true knowledge is bound to be fooled by materials like the one aforementioned! Some muslims do fall prey to such agents cuz they do not refer to a proper scholar or even bother to read Contextually!
i hope this ends ur misconception abt quran supporting violence, evil and wrong!
Here, on Hidayat.Org- my another initiative- you can always download a royalty free copy of Holy Quran, free of any restrictions in almost 40 languages of the world. Most have been verified so far to be fully authentic and free of any grammatical err, rest in process. Since all have been availed from an authentic library, I’m quite sure there wouldn’t be any error of such sort.
Click the link below: Holy Quran: Translation, Transliteration & Interpretation in 40/Forty Languages
Yi have been my favourite on this forum because you talk sense.And inspite some contents flare up sentiments of my Pakistani Brothers.
But dont talk about religion or the Book.Every ayat has a Shaan-e-Nazool which means that it was sent at a apecific time to give guidance to take care of the situation.
Islam is not the only religion which has propogated to prepare militarily to defend the faith.Christians ahve their religious war doctrine and so do Jews.Same is in Hinduism where the your Holy scriptures narrate valour or Ramjee,Arjun vishnu etc.Battle of Good with Evil.
About the teachings of Mohammad(SAW) reagrding , say an SOP of War Manual,it says that when you capture a town , trees,fields and orchards/gardens will not be touched.The worship places of non-muslims will not be touched.And all women,children,old,sick will be left alone and anyone who is sick is pardoned.
It will not be justified if the doings of later rulers be linked to the rulings of the Holy Prophet.
This is one very big problem with Muslims ; our own interpretation of the teachings of Allah and Rasul.
Now about one of your emark on Taj Mahal ; let me add that it cost the treasury 654 Million Rs.then.
I wish the hindu and Muslim rulers were smart enough to have given heed to R&D and progress made by West.Inspite we had a head-start , we were just big talkers when it came to actual war with Britishers.They won with their resolute , strong descipline and better communication and weaponary.We never had a Navy.That too is one very strong point in their victory over Indians.
Thanks to British , we have an education syste,canals,industrilization,Railways and strong justice system.Not to forget stability.That is why India was feeding the whole of British Empire.
Why dont you help us all here by coming up with some facts about collective strength of India and Pakistan in the international financial,commercial,defense scenario.Maybe that way we will be able to understand the fruits of Peace.
Its absolute reality:India cannot destroy Pakistan.Nor Pakistan can destroy India.You guys cannot pack-up and leave to settle away from us.Neither can we.So stay together and start thinking some sense.
And I expect that onwards there will be no discussion on religion.
I read the English translated version of Quran, but I am sorry to say I am not at all impressed due to the following phrases.
Don’t read it to be impressed but to understand what lies in it!
Qur’an (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.” There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not.
Prove it!
However, there are also two worrisome pieces to these verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of “persecution” (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until “religion is for Allah.” The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.
If u read history of Arabia at that time u will understand the meaning of persecution better! Persecution in those times meant skinning the men alive, raping women taken as slaves of war, burying baby girls alive, taking mothers, daughters and wives of others as courtesans, deprivation of food and basic human rights, etc. Now imagine if all this happens to u and ur family will u hail the white flag?? U feel for the Mumbai attack victims… why should the Muslims not feel for their immediate families and retaliate and kill those who are shaming mankind? When in today’s world people are hanged for killing, there are war trials… Justice in those days was war… there’s nothing new about this phenomenon, is there?
“Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”
The problem starts when u read the Quran without consulting a Islamic scholar. U wont be able to get it this way cuz u dun know the least bit abt islamic history and pre-islamic era. Side by side, u also have very little knowledge of when each ayah was revealed. u r bound to have misconceptions this way. to make things easier for u let me narrate the stages before a man is allowed to war:
stage 1: Stop by toungue
stage 2: stop through the power of pen
stage 3: Stop with ur hand and try preventing the negative action and finally comes the last stage:
last stage: war/fight
war is only allowed in islam in case of persecution. otherwise muslims have been bound by islam to honor treaties and pacts of peace with nonmuslims.
Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.” Muhammad’s instructions to his men prior to a military raid.
u have already said it urself.. “prior to military raid” i believe every general in the world says this while fighting. here since the animosity of nonmuslims was based of hatred of islam therefore prophet mohammed (Peace be upon him) made this statement.
:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.
again ur lack of knowledge is stinging u! what is the meaning of high handedness? simple: disloyalty in terms of illicit relationship with other men while being married to one! now as for the hitting… u need to understand what quran means by hitting women. its not the hit u people assume to be! by hitting here Allah merely allows u to hit a women with a twig and that too only lightly! u know HOW MUCH A TWIG CAN HURT! now put urself in this position… ur wife is sharing her bed with another man what will u do? most men would either beat her wildly, divorce her, etc. but look at the limit set by islam… first a man is asked to instruct her kindly n remind her the teachings of Allah then to build pressure he is asked to refuse a relationship with her, last he is allowed to hit her lightly. for bearing disloyalty of a wife a man needs a lion’s heart. man being the stronger of the two can inflict dangerous injuries onto women but islam has set the limit that u cant hurt more than what a twig can do to her! i cant see how this can be included in violence?
4:34 … As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly) …
again u are repeating another version of such a situation of disloyalty!
You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity. If they refrain from these things, they have the right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their own persons.
in this verse again men have been prevented from hurting women through severe measures. alongside, they are asked to FORGIVE a woman if she pledges to refrain from further wrong. now… think once again… if this verse of kindness would not have been issued how many men would have accepted their wives back again with all the love, care and facilities that they gave her earlier? VERY FEW! u know that! as for the word prisoner: translations can often be confusing, in another translation u can find a better word. it only means that women are directly dependent upon their husbands for basic needs!
hope all this clears ur ideas, again i would say read the quran under a scholar’s guidance.
If my wife sleeps with another man or disapproves me, Simple I will simply ask for a divorce and let her live life of her dream, I believe one man for one woman, I am against having multiple wifes, Give your love to your life not just Sexual pleasure.
If you have the right to have multiple wifes at the same time, why can’t she have multiple husbands at the same time, Why the men are so special?
I have no choice to put(Lock) them in seperate rooms, I believe it is against personal freedom, What will you do if your wife locks you in a seperate room?
I can understand, According to you Women are reletively lower to men and they should do what men says, to me a women is equal to a man, I cannot lock her, I cannot hurt her.
So finally what is your stand on Taliban treatment of women?
If my wife sleeps with another man or disapproves me, Simple I will simply ask for a divorce and let her live life of her dream, I believe one man for one woman, I am against having multiple wifes, Give your love to your life not just Sexual pleasure.
lol, please dont mind the laugh but it is exactly what i expected of u! Divorce is the first option men go for! one needs a LION’S heart to forgive and continue living with the same woman who deceived him! Being a woman i know better than u do… A woman enjoys security of a man more than she enjoys the martial relation! if any wife goes about with a misdoing… first thing she expects “divorce” have u ever thought if she actually wishes to get divorce or not? may be she accidently got lured into this and wishes to repent… for u it will be an option to keep her or not but it INCUMBENT upon Muslim men to forgive them and show their best. as islam says to men that the best among u is the one who is best to his wife!! highest form of love is FORGIVENESS muy friend even after knowing teh graveness of sin… and the scar of infidelity! i think this is the zenith of love a man can offer to a failing wife! Divorce is not the zenith… according to islam it is permitted and definitely a woman can request divorce and so can a man deliver it. but islam likes peace, and wishes families to prosper through forgiveness, care and love! However, divorce can be an option, a woman has every right of seeking it!
btw had islam permitted sexual pleasure alone… marriage would not have been complusory to attain it!
understand the logic dude, marriage is not just abt having physical fulfilment… its a bond of truth, responsibility and utmost care! if u learn the rights of women in islam u might possibly faint! a man is BOUND by ISLAM to clothe her, give her good food(if she demands cooked food then the husband has to get her that-imagine u cooking for ur wife n she resting), when she has children… she can refuse to feed them..according to islam u cant force her… do anything to get ur child fed… get a nanny, get a woman to feed him/her, anything! imagine… will u give this leverage to ur wife? next comes financial security… before even touching her u have to give her a suitable amount of gold/cash as a gift, it is COMPULSORY on ALL muslim men, however if the girl refuses its her favor upon them! 
there are so many rights dude… a woman in islam is a princess at home! i can tell u alot… if u wish to know! now tell me is islamic marriage really about sexual pleasures or about real responsibility??
Now… heres a thing… if India talks peace and harmony y cant indians talk the same?
cant we just stop this weird thread of mental violence towards eachother and atleast be good internet neighbors?
Please people… get over this animosity! Whatever lies in your country is for your benefit! let the facts be known and not competed!
Peace and harmony works between two people who wish the same, It does not work if one wish for it and the other back stabs.
Pakistan had backstabbed India on many occations, Indians are in no way ready to believe Pakistan. Yes there is so much of distrust. RAW and ISI can work together to stop terrorism in India, but what will you do if ISI spreads terror in India, How can we have peace?
I also pray to God that there should not be any bomb blasts in India or Pakistan, because in bomb blasts only the civilians die.
Yes Why cant we have a reletion like US – Canada or Austalia and New zeland? Why the terrorist keep on coming to India from Pakistan? Why can’t Pakistan dismantle terror groups like LeT or Al-Queda or Taliban.
Stop terrorism, We can have a good internet discussions, You can spend your Holidays in Panaji and I can spend my Holidays in Peshawar.
Peace and harmony works between two people who wish the same, It does not work if one wish for it and the other back stabs.
Pakistan had backstabbed India on many occations, Indians are in no way ready to believe Pakistan. Yes there is so much of distrust. RAW and ISI can work together to stop terrorism in India, but what will you do if ISI spreads terror in India, How can we have peace?
Dude, i m a student of diplomacy and we all know subversion is nothing new! lets face it! no country in the world is free of blots! yes, not even India or Pakistan.
If u continue talking abt ISI in india… Pakistanis including myself will argue abt RAW’s activity in Pakistan. Now think for a second! what will this discussion bring about? nothing but arguments and hatred! the governments and the intelligence agencies will continue with what they are upto n we the people will continue to suffer the expenses of high military budgets.
i have no hatred towards Indians whatsoever-which is proclaimed and assumed by most indians. i m sure there are many indians who dont hate pakistan at all! i have indian friends n they are very caring n so m i towrds them!
Coming to the terror groups… leme quote Aristotle, ‘Nicomachean Ethics,’ “We make war that we may live in peace.”
terrorists activities are not a new phenomenon for the world.. they have existed since a very long time! the only way to deal with them is to end the hatred! if Indians dont assume that we hate them and if pakistanis forget that indians have been their enemies why would anyone launch attack on eachothers soil?
besides,a terrorist for one may be a hero for another! Consider Abraham lincoln… a rebel in the perspective of british history but a hero for the americans. Nelson mandela was imprisoned for creating unrest in the south african society, today he has the nobel prize for peace! look inside ur own country.. for some Congress may be the best party that ever exists fr sound leadership and for some BJP is the savior of India! Diversity of thoughts is a blessing for humankind.. we must celebrate it! if u think Gandhi was a true leader let me Believe Quaid-e-Azam was greater! how would it harm u if i thought that? inside u can think that Jinnah was anything but good… but dun throw it on my face! lets care abt eachothers feelings and respect eachother’s opinion.
btw… i dun mind the idea of u coming down to Karachi for a vacation..i’l certainly welcome u!!
the more we mingle… lesser are the chances of oblivion and distrust!
Hi Humna,
Thanks for your positive note, I dont hate Pakistani’s.
I agree with you but disagree with only one point… “terrorist for one may be a hero for another”
I totally agree with the terrorists if they fight the armed groups, but what these terrorist are doing… Planting bombs in crowded places, Innocent Indian and Pakistani civilians die in it.
What does a shop keeper in Mumbai Railway station and the Pakistani children who gone with their mothers to markets done to these wicked terrorists?
You are the target, I am the target.. If they are so good and can fight the Army… let them continue their fight with the Armed forces like the Indian Maioists do…. not with unarmed civilians.
Gandhi got us the freedom from the british with Non-Violence as a weapon… can you tell 100% surely that Jinnah could have got the Independence from British for Indian sub-continent Muslims if Gandhi never existed?
Believe it or not the british never gave the freedom to us just like that…. nor it is a cake walk… Our great great grand parents were slaves to these british and they paid huge taxes from their small earnings.
Ok Jinnah got a seperate country for you, Not all Muslims got settled in Pakistan, your wish have succeeded, You could have lead a peaceful and prosperous life.
You could have proved that Pakistan is the source of many intelligent people and people in this country live life equal to swiz people, But does that happened?
Can you tell me a single geniune reason as why India should hand over Kashmir to Pakistian or make it as an independent nation, because you tell it is the right of Kashmiri people? I am a malayalee(Kerala) I also wish to have a seperate nation to the wishes of malayalee people, if every language people think like it India would have been dis-integrated into 1000 pieces according to the wish of Pakistani Politicians. I do not wish Pakistan to be disintegrated on the wishes of Baloch people on the same lines.
I am not sure what you did during Kargil conflict, but I saved every penny that my mom gave and sent 1500 rupees to Indian Army public fund.
Guys, Enough let us work for the betterment of ourselves and of the nation, I am in no way greater than you or less than you… We are equals. Let us work for the betterment of our nation like the Chinese and Yankees.
I totally agree with the terrorists if they fight the armed groups, but what these terrorist are doing… Planting bombs in crowded places, Innocent Indian and Pakistani civilians die in it.
dude, i in no way support the doings of terrorists… i just meant to reveal one ignored facet of revolutions! gandhi too was put in jail… u know that! its just that at times centralized power systems can be very demeaning to a certain section of the society… and this is y a group of people take up arms! instead of exterminating them we must exterminate the cause. the prime cause “deprivation” then poverty and injustice! btw what u have pointed is right… they should by no means target the civilians… but are only terrorists involved in these activities? lets not be naive! foreign agents also deploy themselves to increase the pressure upon nonfavorable governments known as “subversion”
i hope this allows u to understand my point of view better!
Gandhi got us the freedom from the british with Non-Violence as a weapon… can you tell 100% surely that Jinnah could have got the Independence from British for Indian sub-continent Muslims if Gandhi never existed?
a great observation indeed. ofcourse Jinnah would not have been able to get us a separate homeland if Gandhi didn exist. but have u ever thought what made Jinnah and Gandhi what they were? CIRCUMSTANCES! had there been no deprivation amongst the people of the subcontinent they would have been equally stagnant like the current USA population! its all situational my friend! everything in this world is correlated! we had british empire in the world because queen victoria liked the idea of colonialism! we have democracy as the most favored political system at the present beacuse majority considers it to be the best… its only a game of time!! in 50 years… evolution will name another system better and another man shear genius!! its funny… but this the way world has been…
Ok Jinnah got a seperate country for you, Not all Muslims got settled in Pakistan, your wish have succeeded, You could have lead a peaceful and prosperous life.
hmmm… again my friend… u must expand ur domain of reading… muslim homeland was the choice of majority of muslims as proved through the voting of 1945… who moved in and who didnt isnt the argument here! personal choices and collective choices can often be different. as in, a person may favor a revolution but might not allow his wife to get slayed in the name of it! this explains much i hope!
next, peaceful and prosperous life: apparently it might seem weird for u to know but i personally feel pakistan is quite safe! we dont have communists/maoists, tamil tigers, etc. All we have just talibans… that too in our north-eastern part… just that! rest u hardly hear of any terror org in pakistan…!! what comes in the news is what is appealing to the viewer.. the brighter aspects are always toned dull and therefore not newsworthy(the term we use in media for news importance) so all u see in news is violence, terror, crime, conflict, etc. good news is hardly news in our part of the world!!! therefore please dont be fooled by the shade depicted by media… its the bleaker picture ALWAYS! for example: Slum dog millionaire won oscar while any other indian movie didn… why? simple! west likes degrading india fr poverty… n in the name of oscar they shamed india in front of the world by forcing them to see the oscar movie! personally i believe there is more to india than shear poverty and injustice… ur IT cities stand tall… but who cares(their attitude towards india) its NOT newsworthy! similarly… what u see abt pakistan is NEWSWORTHY and helps sustain their agenda… pakistan in real is quite safe and we are happy to have a country of our own!
You could have proved that Pakistan is the source of many intelligent people and people in this country live life equal to swiz people, But does that happened?
my intelligent and worthy friend… have u read a survey regarding pakistanis that they have a missing left or right brain?? lol! ofcourse we have intelligent people… its just that we started from a scratch n u had something to start with! btw… has anyone ever told u that india has to pay pakistan the share we had after partition from the united treasury?? u might be surprised to know… gandhi advocated to pay the entire sum to pakistan… after his death.. died the right cause! money was not the only flaccidity. we lacked infrastructure unlike india! being more fertile ur part of the land was more developed during british raj! u had better railways, roads, docks, industry, etc. while we had almost nothing! imagine, not even our major cities were entirely connected through railway, urs were! we had no highways, had a single dock while india had many… mumbai, calcutta, etc. u people had many industries to start with: textile, jute, mining, etc. we had a handful! comparing the old times with new… pakistan has come a long way! we will inshAllah make it more prosperous and will work hard for it!
Can you tell me a single geniune reason as why India should hand over Kashmir to Pakistian or make it as an independent nation, because you tell it is the right of Kashmiri people? I am a malayalee(Kerala) I also wish to have a seperate nation to the wishes of malayalee people, if every language people think like it India would have been dis-integrated into 1000 pieces according to the wish of Pakistani Politicians. I do not wish Pakistan to be disintegrated on the wishes of Baloch people on the same lines.
i must start history lessons here
my dearest friend, UN has declarations in this respect, please go through them and also try to find out y it is a disputed territory! here i can give u a brief summary!
Kashmir was an area comprising majority Muslims… according to the political undertandings of that time it was suggested that voting be done in every part of india… KASHMIR was not meant to be exclusive! however, the aristrocracy at that time wanted heaps of money… they deceived the people as well india… promising a give on false grounds on paying a hefty sum! having the sum paid india claims territorial rights but pakistan suggests fair referendum as promised by the coalition of british raj and congress rulers! this is what the dispute is all about… had there been referendum… due to principle majority of muslims kashmir would have ascended to pakistan, which is why pakistan feels deceived and cheated by the raja and the indian government who paid him! for more info please take references from UN charters and resoultions which were unanimously passed..
I am not sure what you did during Kargil conflict, but I saved every penny that my mom gave and sent 1500 rupees to Indian Army public fund.
i was too young back then… slightly older than a decade..
had i been saner like i am now… i would have raised by voice against the armed conflict.. its good for none! not for u.. not for us!
Guys, Enough let us work for the betterment of ourselves and of the nation, I am in no way greater than you or less than you… We are equals. Let us work for the betterment of our nation like the Chinese and Yankees.
OH YES!!! we must!! i m glad.. we can be friends now!
let us prosper together hand in hand as good neighbors!
you did not know much about Pakistan’s defense system friend, except 2-5%
These are just assumption. We are much away from your thoughts!!!
“We are much away from your thoughts!!!”
Hmm…..How we wish you were right, pal! Thre is nothing we would like more than putting Pakistan away from our thoughts…..
Mr Hard core Indian
You need to be so much educated about Islam. A little knowledge they say is a dangerous thing. Do not begin an argument or discussion unless you are absolutely sure of anything or anyone.There is nothing but blind prejudice,arrogance and stupidity in your statements.
To allay doubts and fears about Islam God has created a man called Zakir Naik. A medical doctor by profession he has give up his practise to spread the message of goodness and interpret the real meaning of the holy Quran to people like you.
A ten-day conference has just been concluded in Mumbai where there was a gathering of one crore people.Both Muslims and non-Muslims. Non-Muslims were given preference over Muslims to ask any question on Islam they wanted. A distinguished gathering of 30 guests all over the world were also present. British converts to Islam American converts to Islam and so on.This programme was watched by millions of people across the world in countries like South Africa,Europe, US and so on.
To make a long story short can I advise you to regularly watch Sky TV to watch channel no 820 called Peace TV?
Also please buy Zakir Naik’s videos called ‘Similarities between Islam and Hinduism’ ‘Similiarities between Islam and Christianity’ Also ‘Islam and Media’ This would enlighten you to a great extent.
Christian Evangelists like Dr William Campbell of USA, Hindu religious scholars like Ravi Shanker and a few others lost the debate with Dr Zakir Naik before millions of people who watched them all over the world.
Do not associate Islam only with Pakistan. Islam is a univerdal religion followed by 1.6 billion across the globe. Almost every race on this earth has Muslims.
People like you search only for the negative interpretation of Islam as you do not even try to research it.Your minds are already made up.
There are many speakers most of them reverts to Islam .Chinese,American, African and so on who come on Peace TV. You must hear them talk . Only then you will be convinced.
Would be much obliged if you pass on this message to all those who think like you on Islam.
Good luck
Hello,
4:34 … As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly) …
The above phrase is from Quran, What ever may me violence against women is condemable…. Men can show their strength to another man or to a tiger or a lion but not to the weaker sex. I hate violence against women, Periods.
The Taliban, so called guardians of Islam have took the versus from Islamic Quaran and ill-treated women.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
The one which I typed above is NOT my statements… those are the versus from Quran.
Look, I don’t have a habit of disgracing others beliefs but a person ‘Humna’ in this thread told me
“its not a fair assumption… if u cant prove it doesnt mean we cant either! for best details and evidence please go through a book called Quran… talk after u have done reading”
I read Quran, top till bottom with great difficulty… Still I cannot feel or see Allah with my senses…. Do you have the same guts? Can you read Bhagavat Gita? I bet you cannot, Let us leave the religion… here.
What ever may be Quran allows violence against women… I will never agree with this.. Period.
Again and again, I am not interested to degrade another person’s belief…. I would not like to discuss more on religion.
Thank you.
So happy to see that you put up a wikipedia link but couldn’t read this before extracting your own and literal meaning of Holy Quran:
1 – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa,_34
2 – http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/dv-4-34-shafaat.html
Moreover, I disapproved your comment with pictures of Prophet Muhammad (PbuH), you should learn that it is considered offensive to Muslims and you should respect about each other’s reservation, esp. when it comes to religion. Kindly do NOT attempt that here again.
Likewise, this advice is for all Muslims here to kindly show respect to one another’s religion and DO NOT use, misuse, abuse and humiliate their religious sentiments in anyway, for Islam’s stance on this is crystal clear.
Thanks
Agree with you, but that Major Nadeem started it and I replied to it to increase his blood pressure.
But do you really believe that Jihadi’s get 100 Virgins in Heaven?
Thank you for your agreement and showing due respect. I hope each participant here agrees too.
About my belief, I believe in more & better opportunities to earn Divine Blessings rather than believing in some controversial and not-always-applicable acts.
May the Almighty guide us all.
Watch the ten day conference on the sky and also watch other mammoth meetings. Watch how many Hindu men and women come forward on the mike and announce their desire to be converted to be converted to Islam. It is like a phenomenon. Looks like you are too scared to even try watching these programmes or watching the videos.
Again do not even attempt to read the Quran if you have no Imaan in your heart. You are just defiling its purity. Moreover it is really hard to understand the inner meaning of this great book.
I would also advise you to read a book called ‘Islam:the Destiny of Man’ by Le Gai Eaton. An Englishman converted to Islam half a century a go.There are many more like him
Also read Karen Armstrong,Prof.John Esposito University of Washington,and Prof.Carl Ernst(Harvard)
Watch speeches of Bilal Phillips,Hussein Yee, Yusuf Estes on Peace TV. After undergoing all this then cone back and have a debate. Otherwise you are only making yourself a fool and wasting people’s time.
Hinduism may have some good and point points. But if people talk only of bride burning, casteism,superstition,worshipping of monkeys snakes, idols and degrade it would it be proper?
Also Hinduism is the Vedas not the one followed at present in India.
Vedas resembles what is said in Islam. Vedas even
forecast the coming of Islam.
Idol worship is banned according to the Vedas.
There is only one and only God.No resemblance to Him in any way.
“Hindu religious scholars like Ravi Shanker and a few others lost the debate with Dr Zakir Naik before millions of people who watched them all over the world.”
You haven’t bothered to explain how exactly you came to your conclusion. From what I read about the event, there was no jury evaluating the performances and no one was declared winner. Did you perhaps allow yourself to be a “little prejudiced” here, I wonder.
This is what I read in a biographic sketch of Dr. Naik on the net :
“His public dialogue with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar on the topic, “The Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam in the light of Sacred Scriptures” held in city of Bangalore, India, on January 1st, 2006 was a grand success in highlighting the Oneness and Unity of God.”
Can you elaborate?
The discussion was a book written by Ravi shanker . His misquotes about Islam were discussed and he was proved to be quite wrong and ignorant. He even apologised and appeared badly shaken.
Watch the video .Whole of India must watch Peace TV. Hindus need to learn a lot about Islam and compulsorily.
First of all I am not so religious person…. I am not lecturing that Hinduism is the greatest religion and Islam is not so.
Religion is so sensitive to the Muslims. It all atarted with
“Can you prove me that there is only one god? and can I prove you that there are 330 million gods? I hope both of us can’t prove it.”
and
“its not a fair assumption… if u cant prove it doesnt mean we cant either! for best details and evidence please go through a book called Quran… talk after u have done reading ”
Quran does not advocate that woman = Man, It allows men to beat women(lightly, this is always added everywhere) and no where it tells a women can beat a man if he misbehaves.
Forget my religion, as a universal moral law I believe that men should not show theit strength to women in any way, If you disagree with me… so be it. Let us leave this Quran, Gita,Naik and Ravi Shankar here. I am not intersted in any religious teachings.
Religion is so sensitive to the Muslims.
yes sir, it is! u have analysed well! however it was ur right to question and it was our right to answer! so no hard feelings what so ever… the idea was discussion not degradation
happy friendship sir, this is how peace flourishes! dialogue!
hey dear hardcoreindian stop pulling religion into this
discussion
just limit yourself to facts n figures
if u want to be happy just google number of pakistani staellite(pakistan always claimed technical superiority)
pakistanis are so advanced that they dont need any satellites:)
so they dont have any working satellites
they just import indian made cars (even cycles–INDIAN HERO CYCLES)
The original article here is, “India Pakistan Military Comparison”
When and where did it get diverted to a Hindu-Muslim thing?
One does not have to look far. The second response to the article by Haider Zaidi on April 9, 2009, 00.26, said :
” The Muslim if Indian Subcontinent have beaten better armed and larger hindu armies before….”
This response should not have been accepted.
let there be freedom of expression… who are we to decide who is right or wrong? diversity is the life blood of civilization… monotony would have killed us in one go…
if u dont agree… better refrain answering.. if not.. argue with decency… but dont complain on a public forum… we are grown ups now!!
takecare.
“Religion is so sensitive to the Muslims.
yes sir, it is!u have analysed well!”
We are all for freedom of expression, aren’t we?
Let us argue like grown-ups. The problem arises when one of the parties in the argument calaims to be more “sensitive” than the other, and demands special treatment
Cheers
sensitivity doesnot mean that we cant discuss core issues… it simply means we do hold our religion in high esteem!
pakistan have high moral … itx not about only on tecnology but mind power also …we have won 1965 war easily when india attacked ..! india have 5 times more population than pakistan but still we have a gr8 ability to defeat dem in every prespective of life ..>! pakistan zindabad 4 ever !
dearest brother sohail:)
pakistan has also won kargil war you forgot to mention that:)
just that it lost 4000 soldiers and gained nothing but humiliation
it was a remarkable victory of mighty pakistan over weaker INDIA
Hey Prashant, don’t be sarcastic
Sohail said they have “gr8 ability to defeat dem in every prespective of life”. If you challenge him, he will list all those “perspectives”, starting with “literacy rate”, won’t you Sohail? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965
The war began following Pakistan’s Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against rule by India. The five-week war caused thousands of casualties on both sides. It ended in a United Nations (UN) mandated ceasefire and the subsequent issuance of the Tashkent Declaration.
On August 15, 1965, Indian forces crossed the border and launched an attack on the territory of Kashmir administered by Pakistan. Pakistani reports cite this attack as unprovoked while assessments from India and neutral sources cite this as a response to Pakistan’s infiltration into Jammu and Kashmir as part of Operation Gibraltar.[8]
Neutral sources is the word to be taken note of…. and read neutral assesments.
Anyway for Pakistani’s Pakistan defeated India… We cannot change Pakistan History texts.
Hey all
please stop comparing india and pakistan
pakistan is a great nation
just that they dont have proper education/good infrastructure and they survive on “begging” from USA
otherwise pakistan is a great nation
hail pakistan
let me bring back to the original topic of comparing india and pakistan
and am new to this topic but as a true indian i will be honest and neutral
so i will not post any indian/pakistani references and i will back all my posts with non indian epert analysis
india is 4th strongest military in world
pakistan is not far away it whopping 15th!!!
http://www.globalfirepower.com/
since 15 is larger than 4 pakistan is stronger than india
TO ALL BROTHERS OF PAKISTAN
as per you complaints regarding ill treating of indian muslims
more people(muslims) die in pakistan than in india
bombing religious places by their own fellow brothers:-/
long live PAKISTAN <:-p
Pakistan press recently went to town on an astounding report that the literacy ratio in Pakistan is almost double that of India!! They based their finding on a UNFPA report titled “Monitoring ICPD Goals”. The only problem was thst they were quoting the figures for “illiteracy” in place of “literacy”
Obviously, illiteracy seems to be a problem even in the Pak press 
Why are murderers like Narendra Modi hailed and honoured in india a country that boasts of democratic values. Or is it undemocratic values. India is probably the only country where Goondas,thieves and murderers are elected as political leaders. Pakistan too has this problem but at least n Pakistan the media constantly goes on and on about this much to the embarrassment and fear of the politicians. The Pakistan media never spares anyone with a bad past. The Pakistan media today is the best and freest in the world. Even Hilary Clinton during her visit and interview admitted this openly.In the past leading politicians have been known to have been put in prison and even hanged for political crimes. Compared to this India that calls itself an educated country, a democratic country is a joke. Pakistan has been arresting her terrorists at an alarming scale. What has India done to arrest hers. The para-military forces in Kashmir and even the Indian soldiers who have laid siege to Kashmir commit daily atrocities like rape and murder.This is the dark side of India politics. No body ever bothers to take any action. The Indian government is either inept or is in collusion with these crimes.
All they do is scream about 26/11. Pakistan is seeing 26/11 and 9/11’s everyday on its soil and is yet quiet about it thought putting up a valiant fight.
This shows the hypocritical cowardly and unfair mentality of the Indians.
One more thing. Pakistanis do not mind criticism. Indians act like cry babies whenever a fault is pointed out. Why is this?
“The Pakistan media today is the best and freest in the world.”
(Should have done that before you blundered, but as they say, better late than never!)Here is the link:
I am surprised by the absolute naivety of satements like this! Before you write stuff, do you think all? You in Pakistan are fed juicy pieces like this by your own “free press” , and you just gobble it up as if it is solemn truth! Pity!
According to The Table of Global Press Freedom
Rankings,2009, Pakistan is ranked 136,”not free”, while India is 76, “partly free”!! Look it up
http://www.freedomhouse.org/…/2009/FreedomofthePress2009_tables.pdf
And one more question about your ” best and freest press”. Does that include the ‘freedom’ to use the numbers for illiteracy in your country in place of “literacy”, and claim “hey look, we are better than India in literacy”?
It is a well known fact that Indian politicians are the most dishonest and opportunistic. They lie so much, deny so much . But the media is behind them. In Pakistan it is not.
Pakistan was certainly not a free press for a good many years. True. But we have to give the credit to Musharraf. He made the media do liberal that it astounds even the liberal press in the Western countries.Like was said even Hilary Clinton was so astonished at the style of questions , the interviews and criticism of leaders that she openly said’Now I have to admit that Pakistan has probably the most liberal media in the world’.
You people are so prejudiced against Pakistan that anything positive mentioned about this country irks you and makes you jealous and uneasy. You want just hate and criticism against it. It is you who are uneducated and illiterate. Cramming notes and attaining a ‘qualification’ does not mean you are educated. Education is something is something you attain and achieve through a sense of honest tolerant kind of thinking. In this respect I am sorry to disappoint you that Pakistanis are far far more educated and mentally advanced than you scheming intolerant Indians.
It is a well known fact that Indian politicians are the most dishonest and opportunistic.<> They lie so much, deny so much . But the media is behind them. In Pakistan it is not.
Pakistan was certainly not a free press for a good many years.<> True. But we have to give the credit to Musharraf. He made the media do liberal that it astounds even the liberal press in the Western countries.<>Like was said even Hilary Clinton was so astonished at the style of questions , the interviews and criticism of leaders that she openly said’Now I have to admit that Pakistan has probably the most liberal media in the world’. <>
You people are so prejudiced against Pakistan that anything positive mentioned about this country irks you and makes you jealous and uneasy. You want just hate and criticism against it. It is you who are uneducated and illiterate.<> Cramming notes and attaining a ‘qualification’ does not mean you are educated. Education is something is something you attain and achieve through a sense of honest tolerant kind of thinking.<> In this respect I am sorry to disappoint you that Pakistanis are far far more educated and mentally advanced than you scheming intolerant Indians.<>:)
Something wrong here:( My reply lines got deleted for some reason!
It is a well known fact that Indian politicians are the most dishonest and opportunistic.(Well known to whom, you?) They lie so much, deny so much . But the media is behind them. In Pakistan it is not.
Pakistan was certainly not a free press for a good many years.( Accordiong to the Global Freedom of Press table published early this month Pakistan is still 136th in the list, categorised “not free”) True. But we have to give the credit to Musharraf. He made the media do liberal that it astounds even the liberal press in the Western countries.(Do you have anything to support this claim, other than your own gut feeling?)Like was said even Hilary Clinton was so astonished at the style of questions , the interviews and criticism of leaders that she openly said’Now I have to admit that Pakistan has probably the most liberal media in the world’. (That quip is oozing with sarcasm! How did you miss that?!)
You people are so prejudiced against Pakistan that anything positive mentioned about this country irks you and makes you jealous and uneasy.(Smiley) You want just hate and criticism against it. It is you who are uneducated and illiterate.(Mmm…but the statistics tell a different story!) Cramming notes and attaining a ‘qualification’ does not mean you are educated. Education is something is something you attain and achieve through a sense of honest tolerant kind of thinking.(You mean, like what you attain and achieve in a madrassa? No, sir, thanks!) In this respect I am sorry to disappoint you that Pakistanis are far far more educated and mentally advanced than you scheming intolerant Indians.(The whole tone of this post says a lot about your own tolerance.):)
PLEASE STAY WITH THE TOPIC
pakistanis are far more educated and mentally advanced
I can prove that—–SHERRY REHMAN–can write her name with smoke of cigarette she smokes
pakistanis are very much “MENTALLY ADVANCED” becoz of ADVANCED MENTAL CARE
let me come back to topic
pakistan is very strong
facts and figures may favour india but look at history
pakistan has always annoyed weaker india
for eample
BATTLE oF LONGEWALA
a small team of mere 2800 soldiers with just 65 tanks and insignificant 100 APC’s took on heavily armed and outnumbered indian soldiers(ABOUT 120 !!!) armed with most superior ONE JEEP MOUNTED RECOILLESS RIFLE
naturally facts and figures were in favour of india
in casualties pakistan outnumbered india
200 pakistanis were killed compared to an astronimical indian number of 2 !!!!
pakistan also lost 36 tanks over 100 APC’ while devastated india lost jeep mounted rifles
like wise pakistan toppped list in casualties
None of the interesting and informative points projected in the previous posting have been debated. Instead talking about Sherry Rehman’s cigarette smoking and India’s ’super military power’ has been needlessly discussed.
Defending your inferiority complex with sarcasm does not really help. Study the facts and brace yourself to reality.
HAHAHAHAHAHA REAN YOU REALLY HURT MY SENTIMENTS
i will brace myself to reality
HAIL PAKISTAN HAIL PTV <:-p
“None of the interesting and informative points projected in the previous posting
have been debated”
Which ones were these “interesting and informative points” that needed to be debated?
Allow me to qote from your earlier postings.
“It is a well known fact that Indian politicians are the most dishonest and opportunistic.
They lie so much, deny so much”
” India is probably the only country where Goondas,thieves and murderers are elected as political leaders”
A former Pak president/prime minister was hanged for murder.
Your present president had spent time in prison for criminal offence.
Former Pak prime ministers were exiled after their terms in office.
We do not have anything to match this “enviable” record.
“Pakistan was certainly not a free press for a good many years.”
It still isn’t! Pakistan is 136th in the latest Freedom of the Press rankings, and “not free”.
“But we have to give the credit to Musharraf.”
But you have given him credit. He is now living in London “on credit”
“Hilary Clinton was so astonished at the style of questions , the interviews and criticism of leaders that she openly said’Now I have to
admit that Pakistan has probably the most liberal media in the world’.”
A six-year-old, with water in his brains, would have seen the blatant sarcasm in that quip!
“Pakistan has been arresting her terrorists at an alarming scale”
That’s easy in Pakistan, because you don’t have to look far to find hordes of them.
“Pakistanis are far far more educated and mentally advanced than you scheming intolerant Indians.”
Sorry, we are not going to bring down our good universities and build madrassas in their place to catch up with your level of education and mental advancement!
” Defending your inferiority complex with sarcasm does not really help.”
We feel an inferiority complex only when we are equated with Pakistan.
We clearly belong to a higher class of nations.
I HATE YOU QANDA
pakistanis are so mentally advanced that they have
–begging–
found unique way to increase their GDP
NO OTHER COUNTRY DOES THAT— beg from your enemy
pakistanis are so mentally advanced that they dont
need anyone to teach their advanced brain
thats the reason why thers no pakistani university/institution in top 3000 universities
( moron indians have about
highly educated pakistan
80 universtities below 3000)
I had made some very interesting points indeed. What the hell happened to my posting. The ones you are referring to are the old ones. Just cant remember what I wrote.
Anyway to comment on whatever you have written and also your colleague. Let me ask you guys a question. Is arrogance a party of your school curriculum or is it a compulsory qualification for a good Indian citizen. Why is almost every Indian I meet is so arrogant. You can always argue with good points. Maybe we all can learn. But you do not even want to listen. When I mentioned about Hilary Clinton you confidently state that even a child’s brain can notice the sarcasm. First of all did you watch that question and answer session on ARY TV and a strictly Pakistani channel.
Another thing I had explained about Madrassahs that you love to deride in my previous posting but somehow it was not posted.
The word Madrassa simply means school.In Pakistan poor kids cannot afford expensive schools or some in villages they hardly have the opportunity to attend schools like the urban rich. This obviously creates a cultural gap. I am sure it is the same in India.
The Madrassas therefore do a humanitarian service. They offer the poor kids not only a good education, but also provide them with food clothing and shelter. Religious teaching does form a major part of study but not the ugly propaganda that you guys talk about and also your western counterparts.
90% of the madrassas are genuine good schools. Maybe 5-10% have extremists. During Musharraf’s they were even raided and action taken against those guys who ran it. Also Musharraf hunted down and lolcked up his own people for the sake of justice.
In India Mosques are destroyed, churches are burnt, Muslim people are slaughtered in the most inhuman savage manner and nothing is done to bring the perpetrators to justice. Your Hindu extremist leaders are enjoying the best of life after coming carnage against poor minorities.
So how are you better than us?
In India Mosques are destroyed, churches are burnt, Muslim people are slaughtered in the most inhuman savage manner and nothing is done to bring the perpetrators to justice. Your Hindu extremist leaders are enjoying the best of life after coming carnage against poor minorities—–DEAR BROTHER REZAN
BROTHER read your own news papers
pakistanis kill more pakistanis than anyone else
in pakistan most bombs explode in mosques killing innumerable innocents— RARELY HAPPENS IN INDIA
BROTHER PLEASE STAY WITH THE TOPIC—–”india-pakistan-military-comparison”
back to topic
PAKISTAN HAS VERY STRONG ARMY— PAKISTAN IS THE ONLY ARMY IN THW WORLD TO HAVE DONKEY REGIMENT
<——–this may be the reason
BEST WEAPONS OF PAKISTAN
MAIN TRANSPORT SYSTEM– THEY CAN CARRY NUKES ALSO ALL WEATHER ULTIMATE DELIVERY SYSTEMS
watch these videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ28IyqW9Sk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCD4ze8vTrQ
so do you think that India will carry their nuclear weapons on horse cart? ha ha ha
In Rajasthan Border India has superior delivery system and actually we’ll never know who has best delivery system until they test them.
My earlier posting was not posted again.Why?
“Is arrogance a party of your school curriculum or is it a compulsory qualification for a good Indian citizen. Why is almost every Indian I meet is so arrogant.”
You now talk about the arrogance of Indians.
Please read the following, yet again, and see if you recognise them:
“It is you who are uneducated and illiterate.Cramming notes and attaining a ‘qualification’ does not mean you are educated.”
“Pakistanis are far far more educated and mentally advanced than you scheming intolerant Indians.”
“anything positive mentioned about this country irks you and makes you jealous and uneasy.”
“Indian politicians are the most dishonest and opportunistic. They lie so much, deny so much ”
“India is probably the only country where Goondas,thieves and murderers are elected as political leaders.”
(I have replied to this adequately, and you have not commented.)
Are those lines the hallmarks of your ‘humility’?
Or, did you take a course in an Indian university?
“Author: M.K.khan
Comment:
u hindus forget ur history . u r known as most worst
creature on earth.u cannot compare ur self wid pakistan”
.
Rezan,
Kindly ask all pakistanis students to study in Madrassas. You can become a greater nation as you are a great nation.
You people will not provide neutral sites to justify your points, simply tell Pakistan is greater than India in all aspects and bring in religion to each and everything.
It is a never ending fight… You will not accept if I tell the Silicon valley and the Wall street are dominated by Indians to a significant proportion
“Pakistanis are far far more educated and mentally advanced than you scheming intolerant Indians. – Can you provide a non-pakistani credible proof for this?
Can you show a management institute in Pakistan near to IIM – A or a technological intritute whose quality near to IIT – K?
Prasanth, Quanda, Please dont waste time in this thread, I have wasted too much time, At the EOD the day they can never ever give a credible link to substantiate their point.
I am following this link from the day 1, At the end they will try to befriend Indian Muslim, According to them Pakistan was, is and will be greater than Indian like the Sun rises in the East and sets in the west or they will change the topic to a Hindu-Muslim hatred topic.
In their life they would never saw a Hindu, they believe that a hindu is the one with aliean head and never want pakistan’s existence.
Objectively speaking, there is NO COMPARISON between India and Pakistan. India is a functioning multi-ethnic dempcracy with an economy ten times the size of Pakistan’s begging bowl. The Punjabi dominated corrupt puppet Pakistani army has killed more of its own civilians than Indian soldiers in every lost wars. Pakistan is now a totally US occupied failed state where a murderous army and US drone strikes kill innocent civilians, mostly ethnic minority Pashtun and Baluch on a daily basis.
In convetional wars from 1948 Kashmir war to 1999 Kargil disaster Pakistani military has shown its cowardice and incompetence. Pakistan’s military consumes over 80% of the impoversihed nations budget and justifies its very existence by its hollow anti-Indian stance. Pakistan is imploding under the weight of its repressive, corrupt and brutal army that has basically sold the country to its US masters. Pakistan’s military was an imperialist creation from the very begining, created to do the bidding of its foreign masters and play the role of a regional destabilizer. Ayub Khan openly acknowledged this mercenary role in his plagarized ghost biography “Friends not Masters”.
In all fairness, comparing Pakistan to India in any category is down right insulting. The whole British spiteful partition of India was to retard the growth of a UNITED and powerful India. The whole imperialist agenda backfired and now Pakistan has become an albatross around the neck of its new imperial masters.
The majority of Muslims in India have fared far better than the poor Pakistanis under the yoke of Pakistani military. In any objective plebiscite almost all of Pakistan’s brutalized minorities, the Pashtun, Baluch, Gilgitis and the Sindhis would opt for reunification with India. The Pashtun population of both Afghanistan and Pakistan is increasing pro-India including President Hamid Karzai who was educated in India along with the opposition lead Abdullah Abdullah.
Pakistan is a failed state where the army has hijacked a country, while India is destined to be a major global power. The only “achievement” Pakistani military will be remebered for is for DESTROYING THE FAILED PAKISTAN EXPERIMENT. Perhaps, Pakistani military did have a purpose: TO WAGE WAR ON THE HAPLESS IMPOVERISHED PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN FROM EAST (BANGLADESH) to WEST (BALUCHISTAN/PASHTUNISTAN).
Please back all your points with relevent non-Indian sites else it will become baseless.
long live Pakistan with your great army.keep defeating indians as you have done in past. f**k India.
And can you kindly tell in which way does PA defeated the Indian?
I am also equally capable to use an offensive language, If I do then there will be no difference between you and me.
You people are not even capable to do that(I mean the offensive word), We are one Billion… more than you child…
check it out.
http://www.escapefromindia.wordpress.com
There is no country in this world which does not have an Indian, Where ever we go we are Indians, We may be not happy to live in India, but no Indian is ashamed to call them selves Indians.
It is not a great deal, There are many chinese living in US, but when it comes to patriotism.. they are chinese first…. They will not give up their country for anything…. The same is applicable to Indians.
every muslim frnds
read your comment about indian culture?its my advise that think before you comment about hindus.someone from you said that how dare you attack my muslim friend…..then tell me dear US Drone strikes are killing innocent pak muslims.What are you doing?Save them.sorry SAVE YOUR MUSLIM BROTHER MAN.Every day we can read sucide bomb attack,blast killing people in pakistan almost after a gap of every 3 days.what are you doing muslim bahi.save your own country men, then think of saving rest of your muslim friends in this world.ASS HOLE YOU IDIOT.
DO YOU EVER KNOW WHO THE HELL IS KILLING THOSE INNOCENT PAKISTANI PEOPLE BY THOSE BOMBS AND SUCIDE ATTACKS.NONE OTHER YOUR MUSLIM FRIENDS FROM TALIBAN AND AFGHANISTAN AND YOUR LOCAL MUSLIMS POPULARLY KNOWN AS MUJAHIDINS & JEHADIS.
Pakistan se jyada muslim India me rehte hai n they are proud to be an INDIAN.Where were you when US ruined IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN for no reason.Still your government is supporting UNITED STATES and i think you will always depend for every thing on them.Watch our Indian BOLLYWOOD Movies like “NEW YORK”, “A WEDNESDAY” etc.Then you will understand.You always talk about your GHAURI Missile and other nuclear weapons.what are these?Use of your biggest missile and our’s smallest used will sort out the tension of INDIA & PAKISTAN for ever. Wake up man and come out of your nest and see the rest of world,humanity,relationship.GROW UP PAKISTANI CIVILIANS.
I agree with the naveen, when its a talk we say “WHO DARES!” but when it comes to practical we say “INNOCENT PAKISTANIS”, while our governments enjoys and fool us for money and power, lets be goot citizens and secure out fundamental rights within out country and then think about other things… Lets clear out the differences like SHIA SUNNI, PASHTOON SINDHI a**holes, who try to break our nation apart.
Be a good muslim, then a Pakistani and then a human, I’m sure none of these will allow to think of an offense.
While we are arguing about who is better ,India or Pakistan, the US is playing the great game in South Asia.The aim of the US is to divide and rule a trick they have learnt from their British cousins. They experimented this in Iraq and divided the ancient historical country along three ethnic lines leaving it confused disintegrated and riven with hate and violence.The US wants to do the same in Pakistan. They started first with Swat. Swat was happy with Sharia law. It was their business. In fact Sharia law is more practical among lawless tribes as this law is strict and straight forward. Compare this to the countries of the West with their system of law. In spite of being so prosperous and rich the US has the largest no of crimes. It is estimated that there are rapes every half minute and murder every minute.Yet there is so much presence of police everywhere. During a conference in india hosted by the famous Dr. Zakir Naik thre was a presence of some one million people in a ground. Yet no one could see any police or any violent incident. This shows the South Asian people be they Indians or Pakistanis or whoever are perfectly capable of ruling themselves. They do not need American, English or other westerners to teach them. But they deliberately interfere because they have a secret agenda. They pretend to be concerned to help. But in reality they want to destroy to help. This is what is being done in Pakistan. They are destroying Pakistan to help the Pakistanis! They have created an enmity between the Pashtuns and other people of Pakistan. It is funny how they refer to al Pashtuns as Taliban.These American politicians are as ignorant as ever and have proven to be as brutal and evil.
The politicians of Pakistan at present have fallen into a trap and have been economically exploited. Obama has bribed Pakistan and is now blackmailing it.He is just a part of the Christian fundamentalist bigots and Zionists that control the White House. In fact it is Obama who has taken the entire problem to Pakistan. The US unmanned drone attacks,the presence of ‘Blackwater’ under the new name of ‘Worldwide XE’ is all part of the Obama policy.
Unfortunately India is cooperating with the Obama administration in all this and is therefore patted on the back by the US. The US needs India at the moment. But when once it does not it will show India who is the boss. This has been the US policy through out out its history. It did it with Iraq and now with Iran. So India need not be over exuberant about its friendship with the USA.
If Pakistan destabilizes, India will feel the impact even greater. India too has her problems in the North east and Kashmir.
So there will be a political conflagration in South Asia. This is exactly what the US wants. The US with its partner in crime Israel will control the area after taking charge of the Middle east oil.
Thus China will be threatened. This is why they are using India to play their dirty game.
Then Central Asia will be under control once Afghanistan is thoroughly bombed and ruined.
Iran is a powerful country but is in the way. This is why it is being constantly provoked. Iran has not harmed any country or bombed any country . Yet it is painted as being aggressive and warmongering while the Us has bombed some 45 countries since 1945 using its deadly arsenal of nuclear weapons against weaker poorer countries just because they stood up to it.It should also be remembered that is the US that first used the atomic bomb in the world without any regret. It is also the first country to employ chemical weapons in its warfare with Vietnam Gulf war , Iraq and now Afghanistan. Israel is the second culprit using criminal methods in warfare. It is however not condemned for its actions in Gaza Lebanon, Chatilla massacres .However Iran that has not attacked any country in its history is looked upon with fear. This is political demagogy of the evil Western imperial ideology and religious bigotry.
So wish all South Asians get a grip on their common sense and stop inviting the devil on their doorstep to solve their internal problems. Stop and think before you sign a pact with the devil.
Hum I think you are too anti-American… Simple Logic…. There are no permanent enemies or permanent friends. only permanent interests. Our interests have not matched with the interest of US in 1971 so we are enemies… In 2009 it matched.. So we are friends.
We are not fools…. If we are fools… Whole India would have been divided between Pakistan and China long before.
I read my posting again.I guess I couldn’t not have done it any better. I have been fair neutral and have offered acute analysis of US foreign policy which I have been following since years and years. The US has followed this same policy throughout it s history with every country it attacked and invaded. Unfortunately South Asia is today in the firing line.Basically the US is a giant with the most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world.It feels it owns the entire world and can bully destroy or ruin any country it wants. Any country that stands up to it. Iraq is the biggest example.Just because Saddam criticised US policy and blamed Israel for instigating the US to attack Iraq the wretched country paid the price. Musharraf when in power knew they would do the same to Pakistan. This is why he kept playing the game with the US . It was like keeping a mad wild killer dog away by coaxing it in a very clever way. Unfortunately the politicians who removed Musharaf were not very capable at this game. They gave in to the bullying tactics of the US. It was Obama who actually took the war into Pakistan by ordering unmanned drone strikes killing untold innocent women children and other civlians. ‘He said:’If you do not let us bomb your territory then we will stop the 1.2 billion dollars we promised you’Pakistan was blackmailed and fooled.. Till today these murderers are bombing and bombing areas of both Afghanistan and Pakistan killing scores of innocent civilians in the name of ‘fighting terrorism’. India is being active in offering information to the US and collaborating with another criminal terrorist country namely Israel. This is what is sad.
But there is no use telling all this to people like you because you have already declared yourself to be our enemy. You are probably clapping your hands in delight after reading this.
You say there only interests.NO permanent enemies or friends. This statement has revealed your way of thinking and the opportunistic policy of India.Their ungrateful attitude towards the countries of the Middle East and Iran a country that has always been a friend of India since centuries. I beg to differ. There is something called principle in love or war.Otherwise we are all nothing better than prostitutes and pimps. Let me also tell you that India is despised by many countries for their shamefaced undignified foreign policy. Even small countries hate India and Indians. What is happening in Australia is just a reminder. It will soon catch up all over the world.
I am not anti-American just because I criticise and point out the flaws of US foreign policy which I have analysed correctly. There are many Americans who share the view with me.I grew up reading American literature,watching American films and associating with Americans.So I am not being mere impulsive or ignorant.
After reading my rather important comments all you talk is about the paranoia of India being divided between China and Pakistan. Your arguments are too small minded and narrow for my liking. So I leave you to wallow in your own mire of muddy politics.
Rezan,
Cool, Don’t get excited…. You can think that India is enemy of Pakistan. But HardCoreIndian is NOT an enemy of Rezan.
US attacked Iraq for a simple one word material “Oil”…. Nothing more than that.
Why does Babur invaded India? Do you think it is because of spreading a good religion called ‘Islam’? Nope it is for the Gold and Dimonds we had.
What is there in Pakistan and India for the americans to invade now?Is there is any secret report which says there is huge amount of Uranium or Plutonium in the Indian sub-continent? Nothing buddy… People from your country pose a serious threat to the existence of American supremacy, So they are sending the drones into Pakistan…
Do you expect them to care for the dozens of Pakistani innocent civilians who are killed in the drones? I hope the americans dont care, If they have cared then A mumbai style attack will happen in New York and Washington…. that is the worst they never want to imagine.
I am telling it again… There are no permanent Friends or Permanent Enemies…. Only permanent Interests…… When US attacked Afganistan you people gave the air bases not India… The US killed more Afgan Civilians with Pakistans Assistance than with the Indian Information assistance.
You cannot blame the Pakistani Politicians… because you guys have elected them…. If your country had a Idi Amin or Hitler then you can blame the dictators.
If you cannot earn the money, you have to beg…. You are begging from the US… Then you have to do what they say… simple logic. You bought new F16’s in Aid money, How will they come if the US have not given the money.
Britishers became the world Power during the 18th and 19th century only because they had a opportunity to colonize almost the whole world. The Americans had best used the opportunity of their natural resources and they have dominated the later part of 20th century… They Chinese have utilized the opportunity of the US Market and made billions of dollars in their reserves.
If China tells “America is a capitalized country and enemy of China, So we should not do trade with US” would it be possible for them to rise to this level with this mind set?
Jinnah had a opportunity to have a seperate nation for Indian Muslims during 1947, If he had not had that opportunity, Is there is a possibility of a seperate country called Pakistan or Bangladesh now?
Opportunity knocks the door only once…. If it does not knock, Build a door.
Using of words like ‘prostitutes and pimps’ have no impact. It is like a dog barking at the Sun.
Why should India be grateful to the middle-east? What they have done for India? We bought Oil from the middle east… and we have paid for that… Do they helped India during 1947, 1962, 1965, 1971, 1999 wars?
Iran…. I dont know what is the complaint that you are making against India, Iran is still a trading partner and a friend of India. May be India would have voted against Iran once or twice, But on a bigger picture It is not a great deal.
Yes there is a principle…. “We have to fight our own wars”…. Do the chinese came into your assistance during the 1971 war in which 90,000 Pakistani prisoners of war had been captured by India?… no one will come, you have to fight your war and we ours… A bitter truth.
Can you show me any example for “shame faced undignified foreign policy” And what small countries hate India and Indians?
What happens in Australia is Racist attacks…. If you go to Australia for higher studies, You too will be attacked, The chinese students were also being attacked…. The second reason that Indians are being attacked is because The number of Indians studying in Australia is much higher than any other country.
Austalian PM’s once noted “Muslims are Not welcome in Austalia…” But he never told anything like that about India…… more over he told “Indian Students are always welcome in Austalia”
I have a small doubt…. There are many Pakistanis coming to India and many Indians going to Pakistan to see the reletives every year… As you people tell Pakistan hates India and Indians… I don’t see any Indians killed in Pakistan and vice versa….. And all the crime attacks in Austalia happen if any single Indian happens to get caught alone….. and their cell phones and they wallets are being robbed, And there is no personal enimity before that… According to my knowledge it is Racial Attacks.. I dont know what name you have in your country.
The so called foriegn policy which you have mentioned…. I am sorry to say that they are the current SuperPower…. They have acted just like what the Britishers did in 18th and 19th centuries… If Pakistan becomes a super power tomorrow, It will just act like the Americans…. It is a disease, Surely it will show its effect regadless of whom it preys on.
I am not Paranoid… It is a fact…. The Chinese invaded Tibet just because Tibeatan soliders cannot protect their borders…. You can read the news as how many terrorist try to sneak into Kashmir everyday from Pakistan side…..
You call my arguments small minded and narrow… but you are not understanding a simple Logic that the US is the current Super Power and they will do anything and everything at their disposal to retain theat superpower status as much as they can. You cannot expect US to tell “Hello Pakistan, We have been super power for 65 years, We are tired, Kindly let Pakistan be a super power for the next 100 years”
@ Rezan
While professing to be “fair neutral”, you could hardly conceal your glee at the way Indian expats are being targeted in Australia, and unashamedly fantasize that it would soon “catch up all over the world”! You should know that at this time, countries like Australia are fully aware that they need India more than we need them, and will act accordingly.
Thanks for warning us “that India is despised by many countries for their shamefaced undignified foreign policy”. But for such “valuable” inputs from people like you who “grew up watching American films”, our foreign policy would not have been what it is today!
Good to see you admitting that Pakistan could be easily blackmailed by the US, by threatening to ignore their begging bowl. This is where India is at an advantage – we don’t have a begging bowl!
You talk of “principle”. Can you tell us what great principle is behind the flourishing Pak-China friendship, other than “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”?
You obviously rate yourself highly for your “rather important comments”, but it is rather preposterous to demand that the rest of do likewise.It may be true that you could not have done any better, but we have seen better. A lot better.
Mr Qanda. You have carefully avoided to comment on the the rather interesting points I made regarding the bullying of South Asia by the US.While I am talking about the entire subject in a wider aspect you people tend to focus only on one, your strong hatred for Pakistan.We all know you wish doom for Pakistan and please do not deny that you are totally delighted at the thought of Pakistan being attacked by drones. You cannot even bear the thought of Pakistan having a true friend like China who stood the test of trying moments for Pakistan.
I made the comments referring to the attacks on Indians in Australia so that you people wake up and stop this ‘holier than thou’ attitude. Let me tell you that I am not in the least delighted as you say about these incidents as I have always fought against xenophobia and racism throughout my entire life. All South Asians have been the victims of racist attacks in Western countries.
Going back to Indo-Pak politics let me tell you Pakistan does not wish death for India while the vice versa is true. In fact I met some Hindus in Europe who always revealed this hostile attitude towards Pakistan at the slightest opportunity.When India announced to the world it was a nuclear power one of the Hindu chaps triumphantly said :’Good. now we can now nuke Pakistan out from the world map’. This was shocking indeed coming from ‘non-violent’ Indians. It should be remembered that it was India that went nuclear first. Pakistan had no choice but to follow suspecting India’s warlike motives.
I have been decent enough and fair enough to criticise Pakistan’s foreign policy blunders more than once. I have even criticised more than once their domestic blunders. I am yet to come across any posting from any Indian who has criticised his own people. Are you that infallable that you do not have any faults or is it that you are too busy looking out for faults in other countries?
I see neither maturity nor tolerance in your responses.
Rezan,
First and foremost you points are not interesting… You cannot expect anything different from the so called super power, They will try to keep every other country in their control. This is the universal way of life, which you are not accepting.
We are not hatred towards Pakistan, If you guys don’t support LeT and other Anti-India groups, We have nothing to think about Pakistan. You are not India’s Largest Trading Partner, you are not a Competitor in any field to India, Why should we worry about you and have hatred with you?
We know how to handle the Americans…. We know how to deal with the English during the 1940’s and we got the Independence for your country too…. Same way we can handle the Americans too….. If they try to bully us, We have one all whethered friend called Russia and we can protect our homeland and we can make sure that no drones are coming into Indian teritory.
We are not delighted with the thought of pakistan being attacked by Drones, You have sown the seed called terrorism and you are reaping the benefits of it, It is none of Indian’s concern. Frankly what is India going to get if Innocent civilians and children dies along with the terrorists? Do these drones going to annihilate the entire Pakistani population? I don’t think so….
“Pakistan having a true friend like China who stood the test of trying moments for Pakistan.”
Can you kindly dot down the trying moments?
I have been to US, Belgium, France, UK and Spain and nowhere I have seen racism of a big scale, Racism also happens in India too…. North Indians do not always like the south Indians and vice verca and incidents in Goa are best examples, If you visit New Jersy and New york, You can see every fourth person is an Indian and every third person a Chinese, I have never heard about racism in NY or NJ, I have atleast 4,000 friends and collegues there. And same is the case with London.
Initially you told only because of Indian attitude, the Indians are targeted in Australia, but now you shifted to racism. FYI We are not targeted in western countries.
The Americans can and will have Xenophobic attitude against the Muslims and particularly against Indian sub-continent muslims, Yes even Indian muslims cannot get a US visa that easily, because people from your country have did the holy activity called 9/11.
India developed Nuclear weapons because of Chinese pressure and India has no-first use policy, and even if there is a war between India and Pakistan, India cannot Use the Nuclear weapon against Pakistan(If pakistan is not nuclear) US and Chinese will not allow it. Your ‘AQ Khan’ have stolen the Nuke designs from the West and you people got bomb designs from Chinese… It is the statement of AQ Khan, Not by any Indian. So you are not so good baby….
Hooo… We also critizise Indian foriegn policy blunders…. India should have never allowed China or Pakistan in Sri Lanka, India should have killed all the communists through secret service once they have supported the Chinese in 1962, India center should had a strong policy to eradicate the regional nationalism which we have in now, a party with 6 MP can command the center. India should have abolished the Multi Party system.
Ha ha ha…. Pakistan will send 10 terrorist and kill unarmed civilians, but we should be tolerent.
hey rezan
seems lik u r not readin all above posts
u said no Indian critisized His own people
Mr. Ansari hav many times said that we accept the facts of poverty in India(literally 10 times he said this in his posts). he also once said that in India votes from poor people can be brought for 10 Rs.(i dont agree with that now they people demand 100 rs. per vote,,pathetic.)
we are fully aware of our current conditions
chill…
see some explosure(global not national)
when ever we speak abt country u started tellin abt ISLAM
what the F…
is it any regional competation
if u speak abt our international policies then we are not that much talented to speak on it neither u (in india police makers are talented beyond ur imagination,so neither we nor u can match their levels to comment on them)
donno might not be the same case in Pak
I was not avoiding your comment on the US bullying of smaller nations, but rather agreeing fully with your own assessment of the situation:
“Basically the US is a giant with the most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world.It feels it owns the entire world and can bully destroy or ruin any country it wants. Any country that stands up to it. Iraq is the biggest example…..”
What more could I have added to that? As the only superpower in this unipolar world, they can pretty much get away with murder, which they do, and all we can do is to appeal to their sense of justice and hope for the best!
No, I am not delighted either at the thought of Pakistanis being attacked by drones, but if you force me to choose between that and Indian expats being targeted in Australia – and many more countries set to join the act soon according to your wishful thinking – you know which way I am inclined!
‘You cannot even bear the thought of Pakistan having a true friend like China who stood the test of trying moments for Pakistan.’
Not true. We have no rpoblem with that, but please do not pretend that it is based on some great common “principle” and not just shared enmity towards India! What sublime “principle” holds together atheist communist China and fanatically islamic Pakistan, pray tell us!
“I am yet to come across any posting from any Indian who has criticised his own people.”
You sure have a short memory, Rezan! On 30 December, YOU posted this link :
http://www.escapefromindia.wordpress.com
Remember what that was about ?:) If you don’t, read it again. Yes, we do quite a lot of self-criticism and no one needs lecture us on that!
“I see neither maturity nor tolerance in your responses.”
Here’s an example of your “maturity and tolerance”
“Rezan
December 7, 2009 at 02:16
U arrogant low class Hindu. U r all MF’s of the lowest order of the human species Other wise you will not use such foul dirty language. This only shows who is superior. How dare U attack my Muslim brother”
Can you honestly say I am worse than THAT?!
pakistanis need not to tell anything abt corruption and political degradation in India.
in global corruption report India is ranked as 80th and you pak is ranked as 134th.
and above all of this we have significantly improved our rank in recent years but u guys are still in three figures.
we know we have still lot to progress BUT U HAV NO RIGHT TO COMMENT ON INDIAN POLITICS as you are more corrupt and pathetic
http://www.transparency.org/publications/gcr
BTW, get habitat to give neutral links to all of ur truths (if they are)
i wll say nothng…..time wll tell us all.bt one thng i should say is that we have an army on which we feel proud…complete trust.i love pak army
Are you speaking about an Army whose Head office being attacked and held hostage by the Taliban?
why arnt my quates being posted
because they are foolish.
occording to Madrass people.
AHHH i just fai to understand that how a pthetic low life hindu can make so courageous statements…. A nation that has a history of most battles fought against each other yet when an invading army came they scumbed to them made them there kings praised them u know became there bit…s… no history to be proud of except the so called prithvi raj..read his death how misreably and painfully he died and a muslim defeated him …india has been a slave nation and knw given the favorable conditions is trying to make a little history so there next generation can be proud of that they really did sum good on earth and were not slaves for 60 70 years lol…. i ask indians mre specifically hindus just think of it as all resources all armies all major goings in wrld belong to muslim christian and judaism ..the war is between them u r just another tool tobe used aginst us by them…few mujhaideens in kashmir made indians to piss in there pants until u came crying to ur international body of brothers to assist u stop pakistan helping them…makes me laugh….iam waitng for that day of the battle when i will have i nice cup of coffee in delhi nd believe me our youth is bred with this thinking that we need delhi for our next crusade with the enemy of ours that is 1400 years old …. we need ur land its essential for our success.no matter wat u say we will have it….nd believe me iam not talking about the thinking of pakistani brain but all muslims in wrld knw that to win againt that enemy we need this piece of land…ur land
Can the Admin do something to get jokers like this one out of here so that we can continue with some serious discussion?
Aaaaa, What were your Islamic guys doing when British occupied the Indian Sub-Continent… Have you guys drove the british back to their country?
“The last king, Bahadur Zafar Shah II, whose rule was restricted to the city of Delhi, was imprisoned and exiled by the British after the Indian Rebellion of 1857.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire
You were so powerful, Why are the Mughals were destroyed? Ha ha ha… Babur came in the right time to conquer India… I appreciate his confidence and he tried to Invade India 17 times, and That is the reason for his success. I have read in history that Babur and hold two people in his hand and he can run on the wall, That much physical stamia he had.
If he had tried to Invade India during the time of Ashoka or Maurya, He would have got a befitting response, He had his time, He better utilized it.
Anyway you are always welcome to come to Delhi…. Try and prove it…. Waiting for you buddy.
@Ethnic Cleansing,
See how your ancestors won so many wars.
http://www.historyofjihad.org
A history full of treachery, backstabbing and non-obeyance of rules.
This is payback time. Just Enjoy!
Jai Hind!
again
not interested in what happened 1000years ago.
mangolian ruled china for thousands of years,, so do u believe they will do this again
live in present not past(oops…how can we expect an BANKRUPT countrymen to live in present as their present and future both misrably dark)
u said in kargil was u guys had upperhand
PROOF????????
I AM SICK N TIRED BY REPEATING SAME THINGS AGAIN AND AGAIN
cant u just surf a bit IN NEUTRAL SITES for kargil
u will see the actual result of kargil not that one ur media and govt. imposted on u
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/14-militants-blow-up-boys-school-in-khyber-agency-zj-02
Ask these people to read the above news, It is not a big deal for them, They are the people who jumped out from the sky…. They can do anything and everything.
Hardcore Indian or shall one call you hard core comedian.You are so ignorant of the facts of history and politics.You are living in your own world and that goes for all your comrades.
It was the Muslims of India who fought against British rule.Who fought the first war of independence which the British call ‘The great sepoy mutiny’? It was the Pushtuns and other Muslims who sent terror into the hearts and minds of the wily cowardly English who thought they could hold on to a country by bullying and subjugating her inhabitants.But who joined the British to massacre the Muslims. It was you Hindus and the Sikhs who instead of supporting us joined with the enemy.The Gurkhas were just slaves of the British and gladly shot any Indian who challenged the British.The British just love slaves. This is why today India is liked very much and Afghanistan is being bombed and other mUSLIM COUNTRIES ATTACKED.Muslims are the only people who stand up to the bullying of the Western imperialists and fascists. Hindus meekly follow and accept anything. So naturally they are patted on the back for being good dogs and funny monkeys who love to imitate their masters.
I would like all of you to note a very important historical incident. This is about the Jallianwala bagh massacre. When the racist pig general of the British occupying army namely general Dyer ordered the massacre of innocent Sikh women and children and men because they defied the curfew order the Muslim soldier valiantly and defiantly refused to shoot thus facing court martial. This is why the Gurkhas were brought in to shoot which they did slavishly.This is the information from the archives and not a story
@Rezan
The way you make dumb pronouncements as if you are an authority on all things, makes me want to throw up! Do you imagine yourself to some kind of superkid just because you “grew up watching American movies”? Show us ONE neutral source that says that the Sepoy Mutiny was fought mainly by Pashtuns or muslims. History concocted by madrassah-educated, illiterate Pakistanis will not do! At least make an effort to read some non-Paki sources before you comment if you wish to be taken seriously, or else shut the hell up! If you claim that independance from the British was won by your uncle single-handedly, are we supposed to applaud? Talk sense for a change, can you?
This discussion was about India-Pakistan military comparison and now you try to make it a hindu-muslim spat. I am sure the hindus too will have a few uncomplimentary things to say about muslims. Is that what you want? I have nothing but utter contempt for your religious mumbo-jumbo!
This is nothing new right?
Rezan,
You can call anything…. Usually Pakistani bloggers write “F*** India” and Pakistan is greatest and the India can never ever be compared with it. But you are not to that extent…. reletively fair.
You could have substantiated your views with relevent Non-Pakistani links.
“This is why the Gurkhas were brought in to shoot which they did slavishly. This is the information from the archives and not a story”
Statements like above will not make your stories true. Anyway I have the Below URL which is published in a TRUSTED Pakistani News Source called ‘DAWN’
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/archive/050327/dmag1.htm
Read it… If it is true accept it, Else Blame that Dawn is not a trusted one….
Give me more links to substantiate your comment. If you will Never ever give me any links… Kindly let me know… I am not interested in useless flame baiting and not interested to waste my time.
@Hardcore
Great link! Thanks for digging out this gem. This is a must-read for all pakistani “madrassah historians” like Rezan
Finally Rezan told that the Autor is not a true Muslim… Nothing new.
Shoe me one passage where I had written that Shahida Kazi is not a true Muslim. You guys are so good at distorting and fabricating. You have done it throughout history and are doing it in Kashmir,Baluchistan and Afghanistan today.
All I said was that Shahida Kazi has not dug deep enough into historical research . It is obvious because she is not a historian. She is a professor of mass communication and media. Media has always been a problem for academicians/historians. Her views are therefore not to be taken seriously when it comes to such deep provocative issues.
If you read my posting again you will see that in spite of this I have even said that I agree with some of her views. Can one be more fair than this?
Anyway at least now you know that there is a remarkable freedom of speech in the Pakistani press which must come like a shock to you. You have unintentionally quoted a Pakistani woman writer while all along in your hearts you were living with the belief that every woman was oppressed and uneducated in Pakistan.And that Pakistan was merely a land of Mullahs,fanatics and crazy people.
At least you can revise your views now. You guys have absolutely no idea of the other side of Pakistan.This is why I always say arrogance is a problem among you people.
I cannot ‘Shoe’ and anything… Anyway I think it is typed by slip of the finger as ‘e’ and ‘w’ are near to each other.
“She lives in the US and obviously belongs to those so called ‘elites’ and westernised Muslims who want to take a credit for being ‘fair minded’ and ‘modern’ in their approach of history.”
the phrase ‘ obviously belongs to’ shows who are so good at distorting and fabricating. How do you know she want to take a credit for being ‘fair minded’ and ‘modern’ in their approach of history?
Any proof?
You are doing it in Kashmir… So We should do 10 times more in Balocistan… As simple as that… We are not cowards to act like sending terrorist and kill unarmed civilians…. We can give asms to unarmed civilians and ask them to kill the Armed protectors of Pakistan…. Nothing so wrong in this.
And you are so good at taking your points which have no fallacy and fabricating that is what you told before….
“Media has always been a problem for academicians/historians.”
give a valid proof for this in a valid non-pakistani link…. You are totally wrong in this… I challenge you.
Who the hell are you to decide that her views should not be taken seriously?
If you so sure if she is rubbishing something, You should have given counter arguments WITH VALID NON_PAKISRANI LINKS and you should have told she is basically wrong…
Have you done that? Where will you find the valid links… Ha.. THe whole google will not have it… It is in your mind right? A memory location whose capacity is more than that of google.
The toal number of english speaking population in Pakistan is 17,000,000… And I am not sure how many read Dawn and how many read the spplementary edition of Dawn on that particular day…. If you google the freedom of press in Pakistan… You can get results.
Hello… This is written in English… And that too not in the main Dawn News Paper… This article appeared in Supplementary page and not in the main news column.
The shock is why have no muslim people issued fatwa to the autohr and the news channel for writing truth. May be they have not came accross this.
I never thought that Pakistani womens are uneducated… but I am sure the Taliban will never allow women’s education in anyway, They will oppress Pakistan and its women till their existence…
We are not pakistan womens enemies… Taliban are..
And I have never thought Pakistan as a land of Mullahs, Fanatics and Crazy people…. Many good and talented people like ‘Sir Wasim Akram’(the pace… another cricketer will habr to be born in future to defeat that.), Inzamam ul haq… Sorry I tried to name few politicians, but I am sorry my knowledge on good Pakistani politicians is blank.
What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say. – Ralph Waldo Emerson
Other side of Pakistan
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/national/16-govt-under-fire-over-blackwater-activities-hs-08
Now it is time to issue Fatwa against the link.
Mr hardcore
I do not have resources right on my desk but they are always present in my mind when I write. These resources and information I have been carefully collecting since years of my studying South Asian History ,Middle eastern history etc.I would also like to state that I have learnt mostly by primary sources by speaking directly and interviewing people. This is I believe is more effective than just reading the views of some people and accepting them as our own.
AS for the information given to you about the Jallianwalah Bagh massacre it is absolutely true.I will forward the source if I find it.But I remember that I stumbled on it during my thesis on ‘Partition of India’ some years ago in the famous British library of London and the other libraries of Oxford.
The unfortunate truth is if something positive is said about the Muslims in Indian history it is immediately frowned upon or totally rejected as coming from ‘Madrassah views’. But if Muslims are shown as villains and traitors then such views are welcomed by people like you and your comrades. You feel you have had a nice glass of wine.Then Indian history becomes fascinating for you.
Indian historians ever since partition and even before have degraded, distorted and maliciously misinterpreted the glory of Muslim rule in India to such an extent that it has created a permanent void of hate and suspicion among the ordinary masses of India. These historians confused between politics and religion with the sad consequence that they imparted views based on ignorance and prejudice. Young people of India no matter how educated they are secretly wish death for not just a Pakistani but for any Muslim.They delight themselves at the undeterred bombings in Afghanistan,Iraq,and now Yemen. Such is their hate. Like someone even mentioned in the responses above ‘It is payback time’. Such is the velocity of your pathological hate and vengeance in your minds against Muslims in general. This is the fault of your historians and your teachers.They have destroyed your minds.They have carefully avoided the positive points of Islam or Muslim influences in India while revealing untruths or half-truths of this great history and religion. The purpose of course was to spread Goebbels-like propaganda.It is said:’A lie repeated hundred times becomes the truth’.
It cannot be denied that there have been exploitations,loot and extortions committed by certain rulers who thought they were following Islam.But these were just merely ambitious people who even fought among themselves owing to greed and avarice. They had nothing to do with the religion of Islam. They were merely politically oriented as many are today in Pakistan.
Shahida Kazi talks about Aurangzeb in a mocking way.The point about the caps has to be looked a little deep into. The idea was to emphasise that Aurangzeb was an austere person and hated luxury being deeply religious. This was written by British historians .From her article it seems to me that she has read only British sources. British historians acted as a leverage of divide and rule policy. I do not even think she even knows that Aurangzeb had actual Hindu generals in his army.And in some instances rewarded his Hindu subjects by actually funding their temples.
India is supposed to be a non-violent country.But the way you gleefully massacre Muslims in India e.g. the Gujarat genocide’(just to mention one) shows a powerful paradox. The way you let off the perpetrators of the crimes of genocide is unbelievable.For too long you guys have been ruled by a handful of Brahmins who did not allow you to think for yourselves. If it was not for Muslim rule in India,Indians would not have been emancipated as they are today.The reason for mass conversion was obvious.You had no choice but to escape the tyranny of the Brahmin who still is powerful today.In the cities of India things may appear different but the villages have not changed much.Unfortunately during Muslim rule n India these evil customs of human discrimination had been picked up by Muslim rulers and some of these are practised in Pakistan by rich landlords against poor people.This is the disease that is killing Pakistan today.
It is equally ironic that you quote an article from the Dawn a Pakistani newspaper and that too written by a Muslim. Prof Shahida Kazi has refuted some ‘myths’ of Pakistani history as she calls them. One can certainly agree with a few but not all.
I don’t know if she is a historian.She lives in the US and obviously belongs to those so called ‘elites’ and westernised Muslims who want to take a credit for being ‘fair minded’ and ‘modern’ in their approach of history.Her intentions may be good but her approach is wrong.She has not dug deep enough to refute the myths as she calls them.The article is very superficial and more impulsive than real. True.Islam came to India in many forms and through different schools of thought. It should be understood that Islam is not monolith.India was just one of the areas which embraced Islam. Islam spread to Southern Europe,China,West Asia,Central Asia ,South Asia and South East Asia and Africa not by the sword as the myth is propagated but by preachers.
But then again history is a verdict of the living over the dead. So who is right and who is wrong will remain forever a big question.Fortunately there are archives and living testaments in some cases.
Most fortunately for South Asian History enthusiasts there are historians like Romila Thapar,intellectuals like Ram Puniyani and intellectual historians like Yoginder Sikand whom one can hold in high esteem.
We are now caught up in a discussion of Indian history while my purpose was to draw your attention to the injustices of the Western world towards impoverished nations.I tried to be broad in my arguments but guess we need some time for this.
You would do well to read works by intellectuals like Noam Chomsky who defines US and western foreign policy in probably the most honest way possible.
“Quote: Payback time” it was in response to
.
Ethnic Cleanser
Perhaps it is bitter for you to taste your own
medicine.
Also my observation from most of Pakistani sites is
that, you talk very little about your own people,
improvement and facilities but speak about other’s
failures a lot.
Jai Hind!
Completely wrong and distorted. I’ve criticised Pakistan’s foreign policy and political and social status agenda equally harshly unlike you Indians who tend to all the time glorify India no matter if you are right or wrong.
@Rezan, cool man !
I am not talking about an individual
called Rezan, but generally Pakistani sites.
If there would be a war then before going against INDIA, i would prefer to fuck Mr Omer jamil (who doesn’t have any idea of Pakistan’s command and control line and after knowing very little exaggerating over here) through nine holes. No doubt INDIA is a large country by area and has little strategic benefits regarding war but PAKISTAN has also balanced to counter any strike by having effective Missile technology which is considered the highly effective war tool. though war leads to nothing but if there would be a scenario as depicted by this fucking writer then INDIA would have destroyed us eons ago. But she fears to attack coz Pakistan has also got many tricks up her sleeves and INDIA is aware of her strength.
If there would be a war then before going against INDIA, i would prefer to fcuk Mr Omer jamil (who doesn’t have any idea of Pakistan’s command and control line and after knowing very little exaggerating over here) through nine holes. No doubt INDIA is a large country by area and has high strategic benefits regarding war but PAKISTAN has also balanced to counter any strike by having effective Missile technology which is considered the highly effective war tool. though war leads to nothing but if there had been a scenario as depicted by this fcuking writer then INDIA would have destroyed us eons ago. But she fears to attack coz Pakistan has also got many tricks up her sleeves and INDIA is aware of her strength.
You have nothing to loose, We have everything to loose…. You are not realizing the after effects of Nuclear Bomb… If we try to occupy a small chunk of Pakistan.. Pakistan will operate the batterey of the Nuke system and fire one at Mumbai and and other at Delhi… After that we can destroy the whole Pakistan…. but what are we gaining in this?
Economic boom…. No MNC’s Will never come to India again… India will be like what Pakistan is today….. Please dont think only you can use offensive language.. We can do it with much more proficiency… BUT I DONT KNOW WHY THE ADMINS NOT ENCOURAGING THE USE OF OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE.
South Asia is going to be destroyed anyway thanks to US, Nato occupation of Afghanistan and the continuous bombing since eight years by the deadly weapons of mass destruction encouraged unfortunately by India. The famous poet philosopher Mohd Iqbal once wrote that Afghanistan is the heart of South Asia. If the heart is sick the body is sick.If the heart stops the body will stop.
Dont worry…… We have enough medicines….. and your famous poet philosopher Mohd Iqbal got it wrong….. Afghanistan is not the Heart… It is not even worth to be hair in the body…. We can keep it as te finger nails… If it continues to give problem… We can cut it off…. Not a great deal….. The body can survive without a great deal…
Typical arrogance of a typical Indian.Overconfidence and arrogance are the hallmarks of the character of people like you. You have not shown any respect to one of the greatest men of all times . Anyway how can petty minded people like you appreciate noble people like Mohd Iqbal. Good luck to you.
Who is the greatest man of all times?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Iqbal
Sir Iqbal Mahsai (November 9, 1877, Sialkot – April 21, 1938, Lahore) was a Persian- and Urdu-language poet, philosopher and politician of Indian descent whose vision of an independent state for the Muslims of British India was to inspire the creation of Pakistan.
We should have killed this nut-ead long ago He gave the idea to divide my motherland… So you need me to tell Mohammed Iqbal is a great person and every one should workship him.
If you are people from Pershian Decent… Go to Persia…. and live there…. Why you you Persian nut heads occupy India and living here.
He is not a noble person or he have no ability
to win a nobel Prize in Literature….. His favorite subject.
Mr Rezan,
You had commented that I am a comedian in the previous thread, But after seeing my reply you typed a very big reply and I hope there is hell lot of difference in your style of writing between the 2 threads.
You are simply telling “I am always right even…. You are always wrong, Even if I say the sun raises in the North, Indians have to accept it because I am always right.”
Your para which starts with “I do not have resources right on my desk but they are always present in my mind….” prompts only laugh and I wonder what you have thought about me… A fool, or a comedian as you told before… or what else.
“Remember, people will judge you by your actions, not your intentions. You may have a heart of gold — but so does a hard-boiled egg.” – Author Unkown.
You are not an world known Historian for me to believe your words, This is an internet forums, So if you have valid neutal links please provide it else leave it, I am not ready to believe you….As simple as that.
You provide the information as a valid link about Jallianwalah Bagh massacre and then we can continue to speak about that… Periods.
You believe it or not… We are not against Muslims…. In our History books we used to name Akbar as “Akbar the Great” just like “Ashoka the Great” or “Alexandar the Great”, Because he is the last greatest Kings of Mughal India….
There was a Muslim Indian Cricket Captain ‘Azharud-din’ and many muslim players like Mohammed Kaif, Irfan Pathan, Yusaf Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Munaf Patel are playing for India.
If India denounce muslims in India, The above people could never had played for India. I CHALLENGE YOU CAN YOU SHOW ME ANY NEWS IN INDIA AFTER INDEPENDENCE THAT A MUSLIM CANNOT PLAY FOR INDIA ONLY BECAUSE HE IS A MUSLIM? You never can.. I challenge you.
http://www.indianmuslims.info/people/list_of_test_cricket_players.html
List of Muslim Presidents in India
Zakir Hussain – Hussain was vice chancellor of the Aligarh Muslim University and a recipient of Padma Vibhushan and Bharat Ratna.[12] He died before his term of office was ended.
Muhammad Hidayatullah * – Hidayatullah served as the Chief Justice of India, and was a recipient of the Order of the British Empire.[14] He served as acting president until the election of Giri as the President of India.(A Muslim is a Cheif Justise of India)
Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed – Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed served as a Minister before being elected as president. He died in 1977 before his term of office ended, and was the second Indian president to have died during a term of office.[16]
A. P. J. Abdul Kalam – Kalam, was a scientist who played a leading role in the development of India’s ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programs.[25] Kalam also received the Bharat Ratna.
We gave the India’s core ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programs, A first line of national pride in the Hands of a muslim.
you may ask There is no Prime minister who is a Muslim in India…. who has the real powers… I have only one thing to tell… That day is not too far away… If only the Hindus could be the PM of India then Manmohan Singh could never had become PM today for the second consecutive time. He became Prime Minister because of his Qualification.. Google for his Qualification…
I hope you would have seen the Hindi Moovie called ‘Bombay’…. Actually the movie was a great success… and everyone was touched by it and the violence in 1992 got reduced one of the main reason is this movie.
No Indian muslim like that Pakistan muslims being mingled with Indian Muslims…. The people here are Indians and you are Pakistani’s… Please dont bring religion into nationalism.
Now…. Tell me what something positive about muslims in Indian history it is immediately frowned upon or totally rejected?
And when Muslims are shown as villains and traitors then such views are welcomed by people like you and your comrades. – CAN YOU PROVIDE A CONCRETE PROOF? You are totally baseless and illogical… You proof should prove me wrong….
The Para which starts with “Indian historians ever since partition and even before have degraded,….” IS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE…. HAVE YOU READ INDIAN HISTORY TEXT BOOKS?…. PROOF PROOF PROOF…. GIVE ME THE PROOF…. ELSE NEVER SPEAK.
The world History tells that Aurangazeb jailed his father… Killed all his brotheres and He was primaryly responsible for the English expansion in India, He leived huge taxes for non-muslims…. He is the only one worst cruel Mughal ruler (Pay god he was never able to judge the East India Company… else we would have still backward like Afghanistan today)… Not agree with me… Give me the PROOF.
Again DONT BRING ISLAM INTO OUR DISCUSSION.
I am NOT advocating that the Gujarat Incident is GOOD… I condemn it… The violence happened in Orrisa against Christians is also condemable… There are also some people like the Taliban in India… they should be killed. But the same thing happened in Pakistan too… You too killed and destroyed the properties of Christians in Pakistan…. Right… I am not getting an excuse… Violence against minority people should be ruled out with Iron fist.
So tell me how many have been persecuted in Pakistan for the violence against Christians in Pakistan? and then you can worry about the Indian Judicial system. Hoo haa… Can you tell me who are Brahmins and how they live and what is their occupation? I can surely tell you that they are not the Rulers of the country…. May be one or two brahmin kings would have ruled in India… not more than that. This shows your knowlege in Indian caste system.
Ho… The Muslim rule is the gravest period in Indian History…. Indians needed it for not being united during the Babur period… DO YOU HAVE PROOF FOR YOUR BELOW COMMENT.
“The reason for mass conversion was obvious.You had no choice but to escape the tyranny of the Brahmin who still is powerful today.”
Have you visited Indian Villages? What is the proof? Every Indian village have Mobile connectivity and Satellite TV Connectivity… Don’r speak like a fool…. Give the proof.
Finally with simple 2 lines you tell Shahida Kazi is not a trusted person… Good… I have a question… Why people in Dawn are not requesting people like you to write in Dawn?
I told you again and again US is the sole super power today… They will do anything and everything at their disposal to retain their status… No country have permanent friends or Permanent enemies… only permanent Interests… A bitter truth.
I know enough about US and western policy, We know how to safe gaurd our interests.
Kindly have a habit of giving proof with relevent non-pakistani links… else I am not intersted in having discussions with you, Bye.
You also forgot to add one more thing Hassan. Indians are the most sexually perverted people while being the most hypocritically puritanical.
Can you provide relevent non-Pakistani link to substantiate you comment?
Think of something worthwhile to do!
@Qanda and HardcoreIndian(Comedian)
2 descendants out of 14 children, between ShahJajan and
Mumtaz, took part in ‘Great Sepoy Mutiny of Muslims’
. Thereby Mumtaz Mahal also took part in fight against
British.
Please refer to
http://www.historyofpakistanfrommadarssa.org
LOL
Mr hardcore Indian or comedian,
It seems that you do not scrutinise my posts properly or you just overlook certain vital facts or comments due to your arrogance. You even lie to prove your point e.g. You say I bring in religion. When the hell did i do that?Anyway I am getting tired of repeating things and I will leave it to your intellectual and advanced mind and your super knowledge of Indian history. But it would be rude if I do not reply to at least to a few issues you have raised.
First of all I cannot provide with proof and references as i am not sitting in a library with books and documents around me. I just write offhand with a knowledge I hold from years of research in international and South Asian politics. One does not have to always give proof for everything. This is not a Phd thesis or University dissertation to be marked by some leading professor. We have passed that stage.But you should cultivate a kind of modesty and sense of humility to learn and appreciate others view points instead of asking proof all the time. What the hell. Is this some kind of court case or something that evidence has to be shown all the time.So just take it or leave it.
Secondly you have written that India is very magnanimous towards Muslims as many of them are in politics and in sport like cricket.
Let me tell you my dear man that before the partition of India Muslims were thoroughly loyal to their Motherland and are even are today. Sorry to take Mohd Iqbal’s name again but it was this great poet who wrote the first national anthem of India namely ‘Saare jahan se accha Hindusthan hamara’meaning ‘In the whole world our Hindustan is the best’ . He goes on to say’ ‘we are the birds of this beautiful garden’ etc etc. Such was the love for their motherland that people like Tipu Sultan gave up their life defending India against the British. Somebody mentioned Rani of Jhansi but forgot to mention Mumtaz Mahal who led forces into battle against the British and fell dying while defending her motherland with her family members massacred as usual by the brutal British colonisers. The same history is being repeated today in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Hindus in India do not even know the names I have mentioned. If you ask a Hindu in India who is Tipu Sultan he would perhaps say he is a terrorist!
So Muslims fought defended, saved and glorified India by introducing a very superior form of culture and administration,cuisine and architecture,poetry and literature,roads and classic monuments like the Taj Mahal.Yes. there was a meeting of cultures. The existing Hindu culture in the north especially blended that of the Muslim culture. Today one finds similarities in language,apparel,cuisine marriage ceremonies etc. So one cannot deny the positive contributions of the Muslims to India. Hindus were an inward looking people and did not like to share knowledge with others. The Mughal rule brought light and glory to dark India. The light shone so bright that it attracted European pirates like English to its shores and then you of course know the whole story.
Muslims formed the backbone of the Congress party and people like Jinnah were the staunchest supporters. His sole aim was to save India from the wily British who were gnawing every part of her body.BUt Jinnah’s disappointment with the Congress came when he realised that organisations like the Hindu Mahasabha were actually plotting to push Muslims into the corner after the British left. Sensing betrayal of a people and a political party to whom he gave his life , Jinnah had no choice but to ask for a separate state so that Muslims could have their own freedom and security that appeared to be in threat. But you must understand that all Muslims did not agree with him. A good half did not leave a country they considered to be a land of their forefathers who had done so much. Their centuries old monuments,their shrines, their properties, their businesses,their families could not be just abandoned to start something called an independent land. So these people believed in the two circle theory put forward by politicians like Mr Azad . Mr Azad had said in his own scholarly way ‘I am proud to be an Indian just as I am proud to be a a Muslim. Nationality of any country has got nothing to do with the belief in Islam.A Muslim can be a Muslim anywhere in the world. In fact this was the true message of Islam too. There is no nationalism in Islam. All Muslims should understand this. It is this that makes the religion so unique and great.
But unfortunately it was not a practical option. Muslims of India were caught between politics and religion.
The MUslims who chose to remain in India thought themselves as Indians first. So what is the big deal if the Indian government gave them chances in politics and sport.Indians were merely serving Indians. Going back to your point again let me tell you that Muslims especially in the north became like a living monument after the partition. Life for them became a living nightmare in a country they gave their loyalty to as they were looked upon as foreigners and unwanted.The South was not that badly affected because of geographical and political position.
Just because a few puppet politicians were installed to show the world the ‘power of Indian democracy’ and few cricketers were selected are you trying to say that the Hindu government was thoroughly just with the Muslims after partition especially when they decided to stay as Indians with their own choice? Sorry. Not at all. There was total discrimination, constant prejudice ,hate and apathy and frequent forms of genocide against a community that merely wanted to live as Indians in their own country. Dont tell me that you did not hear the speeches of your so called ‘firebrand communal minded politicians like Modi,Togadia, Sadasiv Rathambra,and so on when the BJp was in power? They all openly encouraged genocide of Muslims.Yet no action was taken against them.What kind of f….in democracy is that. They often referred to Hitler’s famous description of ‘The Final Solution’. After Gujarat genocide Modi said: ‘Gujarat was only a laboratory and just the beginning.’ Yet this murderer is walking free and even admired by his followers. So do not give us the sh….t that all Muslims are living happily in India. Bollywood and cricket is not everything. If Muslims have come up it is with their sheer efforts.
Does Shahida Kazi know all these things? What is she trying to prove ? That India is a magnanimous country all along with a magnificent democracy and that Muslims on both sides are stupid and ungrateful?? This is total underestimation and ignorance of real facts. India is probably the only country where Goondas and murderers are elected to parliament. It is also the only country where systematic genocide and rape is organised by political parties through army,paramilitary forces and police with full knowledge of the government.Blatant example is Kashmir.
Let me tell you that Christians in Pakistan are living in full protection and safety. There may be a very few cases off and on but these are acts of some miscreants and individuals but certainly not state sponsored like in India.Christians hold high positions in the army too.
Don’t tell me there are no cases of untouchables living in misery in the villages. It is also in the cities. Most of you Hindus are racist to the core. So do not use bullshit information to f…in fool the world. Stop being an ostrich by putting your head in the sand. You want evidence. Take a walk in the slums and bastis of Calcutta and Mumbai and other cities of your democratic shining country. I bet u’d love that.
“Somebody mentioned Rani of Jhansi but forgot to mention Mumtaz Mahal who led forces into battle against the British and fell dying while defending her motherland with her family members massacred as usual by the brutal British colonisers.”
Your ignorance of history is truly amazing! And still you have the audacity to challeng all comers, including Shahida Kazi. Come on, give us a break!
Growing up watching American movies definitely is not the best way to learn history.
I don’t believe you even belong here!
Okay Mr Qanda. Human errors are possible. In my mind I was thinking of Razia Sultana and I typed Mumtaz mahal.This was an honest error.Just a confusion of names.So its not a big deal.
So It was Razia Sultana. I do not even think you Indians have even heard of her because you are too busy finding faults with Muslim rule. Only negative comments about Muslims please you. You obviously appreciate Shahida Kazi because she is a critic of Pakistani history in spite of being a Pakistani.There must be some personal reason why she has written the way she has.Most of these women take out their personal vengeance on an entire country because of some kind of frustration or other in their lives. Classic example is that of Taslima Nasreen.This woman is looked upon as a goddess in India by the Hindu community because she attacked the religion of Islam itself and their Muslim community. The funny thing is she does not know the real meaning of the religion. She believes that the social practices in Bangladesh is Islam.She does not understand Arabic . So she does not know the real meaning of the Book. In the same way Shahida Kazi is ignorant of deeper aspects of Indian history and politics as her speciality is mass communication and media. She is not a history researcher.She has no right to even comment on Indian history. In the end these women find themselves isolated and neglected by all parties leaving them desperate and lonely. Pakistanis are not stupid . They know their history. Even ordinary Pakistanis sometimes proudly say ‘We are of Rajput origin’ or ‘We are from Hindu ancestors’ Some even say ‘We were the same people until the British divided us’ etc. . Some of course are really of Mughal or Central Asian descent. In fact the Muslim Kashmiris both in India and Pakistan are of Central Asian Turkish descent judging from their language and culture and physical features.
Again don’t you think you have admire the amazing freedom of press in Pakistan?
You just took one point in my posting and blew it out of proportion taking advantage of typing error or a mental slip.I’ve come across some trribel errors in dates, names, spelling etc in history books of leading historians. I dismiss them as honest errors unless they are not aware.
Growing up watching American films and reading American literature gave me all the more strength and resolve to study my own history as I had to discover my own history instead of reading about others. I had to mention this because you arrogant Indians accuse anyone from Pakistan as being a ‘Madrassah’ product. You do not even know the meaning of the word Madrasasah. If it was not for the Mughals you would not have had your historical manuscripts known to the world because you are such an introverted caste ridden suspicious society with a sense of appalling arrogance that is often amusing.
No, Mr.Rezan, you still don’t make any sense
Even if we accept that it was a confusion between Mumtaz Mahal and Razia Sultana, things still just don’t add up! Razia Sultana died in AD 1240 ( see, I have heard of her, a little more than you did!) and there was no way in hell she could have fought the british, unless she went all the way to England just for the heck of it!
No, Rezan, enough is enough. You just got to go back to school!
But Mumtaj Mahal is Shah Jehan’s Wife…. I got so dumb stuck whether she had fought British.
And this is a classical example of who knows History better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razia_Sultana
Now Another new name will follow… Rezan…. Please read something on goole… Atleast to save your ass.
Rezan has a thick skin! He can say things like, “Mumtaz Mahal led forces againt the british…oops, I mean Razia Sultana fought the british…oops, I mean, Razia Sultana fought her mother-in-law who had a british accent….No big deal!……”
How can you ever prove him wrong?
1240???!!!
Even Islam did not spread into South Asia until after the 13th century!
What rubbish are you talking about?
I just give up.
Hi have more than heard of Raiza Sultana…. How can you tell that I have never heard the name before?
You are completely jumping into conclusion… Now tell me who is more arrogant? I had the name in my memory… And I asked my friend who is sitting next to me..
He told even there is a name of a Hindi film called ‘Razia Sultan (film)’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razia_Sultan_(film)
The Film in India had more reaching power than the History Text books, Even uneducated can see the greatness of Razia… How the call Indian dont like Muslim being told in a good way?
Have you seen the movie called ‘Jodha Akbar’ If we are against muslims… Why are people taking those movies…?
Because the movie will be a great success in Pakistan? Indian Box office can never be compared with that of Pakistan.
“Only negative comments about Muslims please you.” – If there are negative comments… Why the hell these guys have done the movies like this?
How can you tell Talisma is a goddess in India…. Have you dr3amed like that?
‘The funny thing is she does not know the real meaning of the religion.’ This is my second example of bringing in Islam into the Discussions.
Indian Muslims are Indians…. Dont rubbish something…
I hope someone pointed you the freeness of press in Pakistan and I have commented.. that news is from the supplementary page.
“gave me all the more strength and resolve to study my own history as I had to discover my own history instead of reading about others.”
You can study your own History but the world Historoy have to be learnt only the scripts and recording which we have for the next generation….. Now kindly tell me who is the comedian here?
He could have dreamed or told in a myth
Mr. Rezan,
I’m continuously watching your discussion in this blog and now it’s time to say something from my side.
First of all I agree that this is not a court in which every time proofs to be presented but let me tell you a incident regarding this. So why we need proofs here? Ok let me explain you. Read this story carefully.
“3:45 am Sunday 1965, Pakitan started an air strike to the Indian air bases. Next day India announced war against Pakistan officially. After one year long battle Indian army defeated Pakistani army by capturing more than 90% of Pakistani area and marched as winner on 12 January 1966.”
Now tell me will you believe in it without asking for any proof??? Answer is simply NO! how can you believe? So this is the reason that most of the time you’ll be asked for a relevant evidence or proof to believe. This is not a court but in a community if you want your voice should be considered authentic then you’ll have to provide a proper proof for it otherwise you’re just passing your time.
Second nobody is denying role of Muslims in India but you doesn’t seem to understand that. If you want to know the importance of Tipu Sultan then you must come India and see. You’ll find Tipu sultan in history books as a hero and his tv serial is very famous here. Tipu sultan was the person who used missile first in the world. I doubt if you know this fact.
You says Jinnah was a great person and he decided a separate nation for Muslims freedom and full rights then let me clear you a truth that Jinnah had made a serious mistake which he later accepted. It was britisher’s plan to divide India into two nations and they chosen Jinnah for that. Jinnah was an intelligent person but he still couldn’t see the truth behind it. He played as a pawn for Britain and India get divided. You’ll ask for proof then I’ll tell you that this is not a matter of accepting or not but it’s a matter of understanding.
You are talking that muslims in India are not happy and suffer injustice then I have a question that how did you know that? Did you interviewed even 20% muslims in India?? Did you came to India and researched about them?? How did you said this without having any evidence?
A muslim president in India, many muslims in high profile jobs in government and private sector, glory of Taj Mahal, Lak Kila etc. are not enough? Yes this is not enough but tell me a single name of a non muslim Pakistani president?
How many hindus or Christians are in your army and in politics and working in high profile jobs?
How many non muslim scientists do you have?
If bollywood and cricket is not a big deal then tell me a single name of a famous pakistani player or actor who is non muslim?
Mr. Rezan, You first need to clear your mind from such thoughts. If you want to know the truths then you’re welcome to India but unfortunately maximum person come from Pakistan to India either illegally to meet their families or in the form of terrorists.
You are talking about Modi, Togadia, Sadasiv, Ritambhara that India is not acting on them then what do you think about Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Hamid Gul?
What you’ve done to them? Why they are free?
At least Modi, Togadia don’t send terrorist to Pakistan. So think about yourself then point to others.
Rezan,
First point…. If you are not going to give me the proof, Let us stop here. I can google and provide you proofs…. but you cannot do that and you are blabbering with some complex words and try to create an impression that I am (and all Indians are) comedians to yourself.
If you tell that you came from your Fathers womb… And you are expecting us to appreciate it and believe it without a second thought… Anyway I am not like that.
Tipu Sultan is a Emperor of Mysore… His Palace is still standing majestically in Mysore…. And He is the first Person to have had used missiles even before the British…. And his name is recorded in NASA as the first developer of Missiles.
:If you ask a Hindu in India who is Tipu Sultan he would perhaps say he is a terrorist” You made this statement…. If I ask how you said this….. You will tell that I learned it from my experience….. I will tell take your experience and put it in the dust bin, We have learned about all the muslim emporer’s and all the Hindu Kings to….
I am telling you that you Know Tipu Sultan only because he is a Muslim… Have you ever heard about Palazi Raja or VeeraPandiya Kattabomman who fought against the British equal to that of what Tipu sultan did. If we dont want to spread the courage of Tipu Sultan, Indian TV Channels should not have shown his(Acted by another person) serials, And we could have changed his palace and Taj Mahal to be converted as some Hindu Temples… We are not a people who cast a Coward as a hero and a Hero as a Coward.
Cricket is more than Religion in India…. Getting yourself for playing for India is not a simple deal…. Many politics being played in the selection, but I can surely tell there is no politics in the name of religion.
‘Mumtaz Mahal’ is the wife of Shah Jehan….. I dont think there is any Britishers in India during that time. Am I wrong? Give me your Proof…. Or you are telling different Mumtaj Mahal
You pakistani’s are some times telling all the Indian Muslims wanted to migrate to Pakistan and now you are telling ” India Muslims were thoroughly loyal to their Motherland and are even are today.” What is right and what is wrong?
After writing Sare Jahanche Acha… He gave the Idea to split India?….. He should have been killed atleast by the Violent Indian factions…. Like Subash group.
The Taj Mahal is built by Hindus Mason’s…. Not Muslims Mason’s… It took 22 years to build Taj Mahal, and 20000 workers worked Day and Night to complete it. After the work for completed, all the Masons Hands were served for not to build another Taj Mahal in this world….. So Cultures ours not
Muslim Kings Plundered and looted almost every Temple in India… All they wanted is the Gold… Nothing more than that… There are some great kings like Akbar…. Apart from that… There is nothing great in the administration… If they had administered well we should have Mughal empire now in India in 2010…. The Administration is nothing compared to world class.
All the Manuments were built by the Hindus and all the roads built by Hindus too… You looted much more Gold and Dimond from India and did things for their own travel… Not a great deal. So Babur came to India for Islam…. He too came for Looting…. and not for the muslim Empire…..
“Hindus were an inward looking people and did not like to share knowledge with others.” – You are absolutely wrong…. What is the basis for this arguement.
Muslims were never a significant portion in Indian National Congress, No Muslim went to Jail for fighting Independence… Not even Jinnah…. Have Jinnah had any fasting… or any peaceful movements against British… Nope,… nothing Almost all the Muslims are so faithful to the British.
“organisations like the Hindu Mahasabha were actually plotting to push Muslims into the corner after the British left.” It happened only after the Muslims are raising slogans for creation of new country for Pakistan Muslims….. It is not Persian Muslims Land…. Who the hell gave you the right to divide it.
The Indian Muslims are faithful muslims and Pakistan Muslims are betrayers… Simple word… You thought Hindu India will kill all the Muslims,
“There is no nationalism in Islam. All Muslims should understand this. It is this that makes the religion so unique and great.” I have the proof that you are taking Islam into your discussion all the time…. Please dont tell “I told in that meaning… Or I told in this meaning”, Have I or any Indian told Hinduism is great… anywhere anytime… I dont think so.
The MUslims who chose to remain in India thought themselves as Indians first. So what is the big deal if the Indian government gave them chances in politics and sport. – You people have told that Muslims in Indians are Slaves… I told that it is not like that and showed you some valid links and took the message to your senses that Indian Muslims are not slaves… And you are asking that “What is the big deal?”
North or South… East or West… An Indian is an Indian…. There is nothing difference of opinition when it comes to National Security. I have gone and lived in all parts of India and having reletives in All Parts of India… And there were reletives married Kanadiga, Teleugu Muslim, Malayalee Christian, a Punjabi, Gujarathi… and even one in Bengali…. so everyone of us are equally an Indian…. so we regard the nation comes before everything.
Prime Minister Post is not a Puppet post….. If you think so… I need not explain anything to you.
“There was total discrimination, constant prejudice ,hate and apathy and frequent forms of genocide against a community that merely wanted to live as Indians in their own country.” – In your dreams right?
What action you took against the muslims who attacked Christians in Pakistan…. So what democracy you are having? It happens all over the world… It happened in India… It happens in Pakistan… I have not killed nor in the future will kill any muslim…. I condemn it… And Every Indian with good senses condemn it…. We are not responsible for it… It is the the way the world acts… I cannot do anything.
Yes, There is a final solution….not against Indian Muslims…. That solution will not work… but against Pakistani Army and ISI…. This will work…..
The Indian Muslims are living Happily in India than a Pakistani Muslim… If terrorist have to come it have to come from the worlds only place Pakistan….. Indian Muslims too have problems… but not from Hindus. Incidents have happened in the past… but that will not happen in future not to that scale…
Does Shahida Kazi know all these things? – Why does she want to know anything about the things which happens in India? What she wrote about Pakistan myths… not about the Living conditions of Muslims in India.
What is she trying to prove ? – What she is trying to prove is Pakistan is very weak in History and always day dreaming and in some myths and proof for their arguments lie in their mind… It all comes from the myth they have dreamed of.
“Muslims on both sides are stupid and ungrateful??” – Again I see you are trying to mingle with Indian Muslims….. Please don’t attempt it once again.
Ok, You are telling “What ever Rezan is having in the mind are the real facts and it will not appear anywhere.”
“India is probably the only country where Goondas and murderers are elected to parliament.” – This is the second time you are telling this in this thread… Anyway these Goondas and Murderers have not sold the Indian soverinity to the Americans as your Politicians did it…. No Drones are coming into India and killing Innocent Civilians…..and Compare the Curriculam Vitae of Indian Prime Minister with Pakistani Prime minister.
Army is doing rape… I accept it… Pakistani Army have also indulging in Raping… every army does it… Compared with Pakistan track recond of 1970 -1971 Indians are not that great.Raping of 2 women in Kahmir caused so much uproar… It will not happen that easily again…. You are doing it in Balochistan… We are doing in a reletively low scale in Kashmir… not a great deal.
“Let me tell you that Christians in Pakistan are living in full protection and safety.” – Ho I saw that in Dawn News.
“There may be a very few cases off and on but these are acts of some miscreants and individuals but certainly not state sponsored like in India.” – It is the Neural sources should Judge that… not you.
“Christians hold high positions in the army too.” – In your dreams?
The people in the slums will continue to live there… They have no great morals… We dont worry about them… None of your concern too…
The GDP of India is more than 1 Trillion US $, That is where India stands…. and Shines….
Anyway you told vey clearly that you will NEVER EVER give links….. I dont want to discuss with a person who have day dreamed and believed in myths all his life.
Good bye to you and All the best for you to keep on dreaming and just learn only in Madrassas…. Dont ever try to choose Science or Maths… because that requires the grey matter called Brain… and Math and science needs something called Inference, Proof and close observation… You dont have those abilities…
@Rezan,
For getting captaincy in cricket, Yousuf Youhana had to become Mohammad Yousuf, such is Pakistan’s religious tolerance.
East or West, North or South, India is the best, Indians are the best.
Vandemataram, Jai Hind!
Mr Hardcore Indian
Please read my post sent to Capton.
I also want to reply to you but when I read about your comments on Taj Mahal I changed my mind.
Taj mahal built by Hindus??!!Ha ha ha.
This is the views shared by hard core members of the far right Hindu fanatical idiot parties who live with a terrible sense of inferiority complex. They do not seem to get over the fact that they were ruled by Muslims for a thousand years.They hate the thought that a monument that has popularized India throughout the world and is the largest source of income of tourism was built by the Muslim rulers. So they have to lie as usual and make a story. And ’super brain’ people like you believe it and even echo it.Maybe you are even part of this crazy clique of comedians.
Just stop and think. Do you see a difference between a Hindu and Muslim architecture? Have you visited Iran or Central Asia? Half of the buildings there look like the Taj Mahal. This only proves that it was the people from these regions who ruled India brought in own their style of architecture. Cant you see the Taj Mahal is styled in the shape of a mosque.And when did the Hindus start writing Quranic arabic. The entire interior of the Taj mahal is inscribed with the words of the holy Quran. Wow wow wow. Mr hardcore man. Give us all a break before you become the laughing stock of this forum.
You cannot deny the fact that the Mughals were great builders. It is these people who gave beautiful gardens to India,beautiful monuments built with precious stones, built roads , created a monetary system ,an excellent administration. They stayed back in India and built India and their descendants were proud to call themselves Indians. Unlike the British who came with the sole purpose of stealing the resources of India and using it as their country of exploitation while remaining aloof from the local population owing to their racist attitudes. They looked upon the Indians as animals. Hunted them down as such and killed them as sport or form of revenge all the time. Women of decent royal lineage were raped at free will and the entire population was looked upon as servants or slaves. Yet you have forgiven them and love them while you have not forgiven those people who chose to live and die in India as Indians.
You now love their cousins across the continent to whom the baton of colonialism was handed over. They are slowly and slowly colonising the world in their own style. They unleash their soldiers who behave like mad wild dogs on poor defenceless populations of the world with hi-tech weapons of mass destruction rendering them homeless and orphaned. In the sixties it was countries like Nicaragua and Panama who were the victims of American bullying and murder. Then came the turn of Vietnam and then Iraq,Afghanistan and now even Pakistan is appearing ominous.It is estimated that in Iraq there are today some half a million orphans and an equal number of widows apart from an equal number that were slaughtered for a reason based on a lie the world will never understand. An ancient civilisation razed to the ground,its rich cultural heritage destroyed,its infrastructure in shambles. its economy shattered and totally diminished while its population is busy engaged in an ethnic civil war created most cunningly and viciously by the US ‘liberators’ and ‘universal champions of democracy’. Afghanistan is being bombed since eight long years.Yet you do not utter one word of condemnation at the illegality and criminal behaviour of the bullying powers. And Afghanistan thinks you are their best friend. In fact you applaud the aggressors just as you fail to condemn the criminal behaviour of another mad dog country namely Israel whom you regard as your best friend. So where is the sense of justice here.The political situation of India and Pakistan history should not come in the way of expressing outrage at the violation of human norms and making a mockery of human conscience as regards another country or another people. A crime is a crime no matter who commits it.
Do not wallow in the stagnant gutters of fabricated history. It will only create an incurable septic infection in your minds. Free your minds from prejudice and unreasonable form of vengeance. Both India and Pakistan are still developing countries and have a long way to go.
Pakistan has no quarrel with India. India left the Kashmir problem as a festering sore in the body of the sub-continent. Until it is cured the body will die of infection.Do not blame the consequences. Blame the cause.
Do not live in the dream that the US is a friend. Do not forget that it is arming Pakistan equally as it is aiding you in the same.It is nobody’s friend.It is merely an opportunist and a bully.
‘Srila Jayapataka Swami, a sannyasi or “priest”, has studied India’s religious history for the past 30 years. He says, “The Taj was probably built by Mughals but using Hindu artisans and architects. In those days things were very integrated. Mughals were ruling but often they had Hindu ministers and generals.”‘
http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0201/ET17-7101.html
I am not giving proof to you, I am giving proof to other readers, There were no great Muslim Crafts men during that time in India.
People can read and provide me who is most trust worthy.. me or Rezan.
FYI, The South of India is a Major tourist spots… Particularly Kerala, It is not that Taj Mahal is the only Place in India that every Tourist wants see… I have seen many Tourists who never go to Taj Mahal.
Taj Mahal is one of the mordern 7 wonders of the world and that is not alone India.
http://www.tourindia.com/htm/homepage.htm
http://www.india-tour.com/
If any one believe that Taj Mahal is built by all Muslims, Please provide me a non-Pakistani link.
I am very clear…. You have a clear mind set… You and your terrorists want to create a divide between Hindus and Muslims, We are not going to allow that to happen. Dont waste your time here… Read some mythologies in the Madrassas.
“Just stop and think. Do you see a difference between a Hindu and Muslim architecture? Have you visited Iran or Central Asia? Half of the buildings there look like the Taj Mahal. This only proves that it was the people from these regions who ruled India brought in own their style of architecture.”
- Illogical statements, I can tell the Hindu Masons can see any architecture and can build it… Shortly they are more in learning new thisgs…. Why is it not possible? Provide logical proofs… not A=B and Muslim=Christian.
I told that Taj Mahal is built by Hindu Masons, Not by Hindu King, It was built by Shah Jehan, He would have ordered the buildings to be written in Urdu or arabic… but that writing does not mean that it was entirely built by muslims.
If I can Argue like you, I can tell “Taj Mahal is built by a Hindu King, and later Shah Jehan destroyed all the details and painted Urdu inside it… ” Agreed with me?
Muslim rulers wanted to build the monuments, so the Hindus slaves built it… Nothing more that that.
The Administration of Mughal Rulers is not of world class, If they have that much administrative system then Britishers and French should not have entered into India…. The English does have a very good Administration.. they proved in WW – I and II.
The Americans ruling the world now…. more than that they are ruling the Pakistan now.What are you guys going to do about it.
The Indian Railway system was built by the Britishers… This too was done by the Indian workers…. but with the English technology.
Sati was a worst practice done by Hindus, It was the English which abolished it with the advice of Raja Ram MohanRoy. We Indians have only one great advantage over the Chinese… English Language… There were no great English speaking population in China… Though it is improving now in China.
PA also Raped women in Bangladesh…. You were not saints.
You told many things about Americans, I hope I replied to you long back, anyway I am replying again.
The Sole superpower will act only like that. They will do anything and everything at their disposal to retain their super power status.
The Budget of Chinese armed forces recently is 100 Billion US $, but the Americans will create an impression that Chinese Budget is 200 Billion US $ and they will get huge steep rise in their next Budget.
If tomorrow India becomes a super power… The Americans will not like it… and they will do anything and everything to stop us…. Simple Logic… Nations do not have permanent friends or enemies. only permanent interests…. The Britishers and French were enemies for centuries… but they were friends now.
You don’t fell for sending 10 terrorist to kill unarmed population… Why should we worry about you? You reap what you sow….
I am sorry Pakistan is not a developing Country is in middle of Civil war conditions… THe US will dump you one day… After that you will have your time in fighting the Taliban…. They will do every attempt to take your Nukes… If they take your Nukes, That is the worst you can imagine.
Kashmir is an Integrated Part of India…. Periods… Refrain from making comments on that topic…. We are very, very, very serious about this… Why the hell should we divide India in the name of Religion… You people always tell that you are of Persian Orgin.. Go to persia… We Indians can live peacefully with the Muslims who think they are Indians. Others get out… Call me aggressive? yes I am in this point.
US can give you some low end equipments to encourage you to fight against Pakistan…. If they are arming you, Then why dont you get the F-22’s and Very high end equipments like F-35?
one more thing.. We are not begging, We are giving money to buy the equipments, I hope you the difference between what you get by begging and what you get by paying money.
Mr hardcore indian seems to knw it all…while sum of his facts are astoundingly correct but hes a google freak…if ur india is so good y dont u go nd do sumthing useful about it like provide some basic hygeine needs to the ppl or free sum prostitutes instead of screwing up every ones brain here…if u indians were so good about everything u wont even get in to discussions like these..the only thing that makes u to shout so much about ur economy growth nd bla bla bla bcz it is the first time in ur 100s nd 100s years of history that u r actualyy doing some good…u said did u ever read about any hindus heros in ur books who faught goras..well…. no becz we all think u r nd u will remain cowards hahahah…nd wen u say the international body believes india not pakistan thats bcz the are liers…just ask ur self iraq was destroyed bcz it had weapons of mass destruction but still not a single weapon has been found its the same inernational body u take support of…israel becomes frnds with india only bcz hes threatned by our nuclear capabality so israelis who have a brilliant minds think india could be the perfect frnd we can use them for our interests they have a habit of becoming good slaves y not try friendship this time…america on the other hand sees china as there biggest challenger they think y not support these filthy creatures next to them in order to contain them and so follows the rest of europe lucrative investments r brought to india…investments are brought to india favors r provided to them india is more listened internationaly…let me remind u one thing mre the terroist u see are made by the support of united states to support afgan war nd tarnish the one and only challenging power to them which was ussr….so such favors can really help u to prosper in world but let me remind wen partition commenced all the industry went to india even the runnings waters and country separted by a hostile land..ur slave minds paid u great favors we started a millions miles behind and still rose up if india was such a strong nation it wud have overrun us in the beginning ur r afraid of Pakistan it gives u night mares which is one motasiivation for u to prosper. a single mumbai attack took the air out of the indian ballon all brilliant inteligence of india failed imagine 100 of attacks daily…think of this too all the latest technology gadgets weapons but they still cudnt allocate a single man osama bin laden…so if u think better planes and army equipment can win u wars then u r wrong there is sumthing else something mysterious thats need to be there to win we r bred with that.
MADRASSAH TRASH !! PLEASE IGNORE!
(Do not dignify this scum with a reply!)
It seems to me that something good has come out of this discussion at last.
At least some of you guys appreciate and accept Muslim rule in South Asia in spite of your historians who have brain washed you against it.But your responses interest me. I am trying to analyse them from the sociological and psychological point of view.
India is a vast country with a highly diversified community differing completely in culture ,customs,religious beliefs and of course political views. Each of you have replied according to your minds belonging to the regions of the country you have come from. One of the comments is that all Indians are the same. This is not what I found when I visited the country some years ago. There is lot of acrimony and dislike among the different regions of the country. Sometimes communities tend to make fun of each other very often despising each other. So the picture is not so rosy and the description appears exaggerated.
Replying to Capton I would like to thank him for his rather calm and cultured response compared to the rather rash and arrogant comments from others. His chief argument is the state of tolerance of minorities in India as compared to those of Pakistan.
Now the concepts of politics of both these countries should be understood to go into the depth of this argument. Pakistan did not declare herself to be a democracy.It was most of the time under military rule and although democratic rule did come it still was dependant on military advisers. It was more frank in this respect and openly said so. So you cannot expect Pakistan to behave exactly the same way as India.But India calls herself a democracy but has often behaved in a very undemocratic way. This is the difference.Take for example their behaviour with Jaswant Singh. They did not give him a chance. Just because he had his own opinion?! Take for example Shahida Kazi’s article In the Dawn.Was she punished for it? This is the difference. You have to watch Pakistani TV for discussions. You will be shocked at the frankness of approach and the freedom of speech. It is totally unbelievable considering the fact that Pakistanis are considered to be unfair and undemocratic.
Coming to your point about equal opportunities for minorities, again it is not the same situation to compare. Pakistan was formed as country for Muslims of India who feared Hindu hegemony. Pakistan was formed for Muslims. 50% agreed while belonging to the Muslim league while 50% did not as they decided to stay with the Indian Congress. So they had every right as every Indian citizen when it came to employment, social activities, sport etc. So the argument that Muslims in India are treated better than Christians or Hindus in Pakistan does hold any water at all. The news in India that Christians /Hindus in Pakistan are being killed etc is highly exaggerated and mischievous. In fact there are more Muslims killing each other unfortunately. Sikh temples are renovated and maintained well. Compare this to the deliberate destruction of Babri Masjid.Churches are still intact and Christians are left alone.Very recently the news of Christians celebrating Christmas was shown on Pak TV with full splendour. The reason why you do not come across Christian names in Pakistan is because Muslims do not change their names after conversion. This is common in Arab lands too. Christian Arabs have Muslim sounding names . But these are Arab names not necessarily Muslim names For e.g. the right hand man of Saddam Hussain was called Tariq Aziz Who would have thought that he was a Christian? .In fact too much importance was given to this. The foreign Christian missionaries in their own sinister way converted some Muslims of Pakistan with the purpose of having a foot in the affairs of the country. They have done this and are still doing it in India too. These Christians often act as spies for their Christian masters of the West. In the present political atmosphere of the US actually bombing the areas in North Pakistan I wonder how long this tolerance will last.
It should be remembered that Pakistan was formed on the basis that Muslims of India would be left in total disarray with the departure of the British as the far right Hindu elements openly warned of ’showing a lesson to the Muslims after the British left’. Mr Jinnah who was thoroughly loyal to the Congress and completely devoted to the cause of liberating India from the British did not even think of Hindu Muslim differences. In fact he was known to be champion of Hindu Muslim brotherhood. But why did this man change so much. There must be a pretty good reason.In one his writings Jinnah writes: I always liked to shake the hand of a Hindu. But this Hindu after smilingly shaking my hands makes it a point to wash his hands immediately saying ‘O’Rama I shook my hands with a Muslim’. In this simple example Jinnah elucidates his point. Hindus were simply not to be trusted.They are not what they seem. He writes showing that he was totally disappointed and dejected at their behaviour in spite of his being so loyal in their friendship to them and that there was no hope for the Muslims now.But how far Jinnah was right or wrong is a matter of further discussion. It is known that Jinnah was no much of religious person throughout his life. But he became totally Islam oriented in his later years as he felt he had erred in his opinion about Hinduism and Hindus.This is what I mean by saying that man says or decides things in his life according to his political or regional experience. This is what I mean when I talk about sociological or political aspects in the life of a human being. We all utter and do things as a response to what we see around us.
I thank mr Capton for appreciating Jinnah too. True the British took advantage of the situation and persuaded Jinnah to go ahead with the partition of the country. This is a theory that is entertained both in India and Pakistan.The British have been notorious for dividing territories that did not belong to them throughout the world.So this is not surprise.
Mr Capton. You have given a rosy picture of Muslims in India. It is not completely true.Perhaps it is getting better. You must also understand that there are almost equal number of Hindus living and working in the Muslim countries of the Gulf and Middle East. In fact in Dubai the Hindu population is highly prosperous and happy and hold even important positions in government.If the Muslims did not seek jobs in this part of the world God knows what would have happened to their lives.
Pakistan has no quarrel with India.
Wars between India and Pakistan would not have taken place if it was not for the political situation of Kashmir. The Muslims of Kashmir right from 1949 did not get a chance to voice their opinion nor get their rights. The British in history have always been thieves and villains with other races.Not only did they occupy our lands and stole our resources but also did business with them. The British as if Kashmir belonged to them sold this precious land to the Sikhs for a value of what would be today so me £10000 thus giving one Indian community the right over another.
At the time of partition Hari singh the then ruler switched sides to India in spite of the mandate that a majority population would go the country of their choice if the ruler belonged to a minority. The Muslims of Kashmir did not get a chance till today. Plebiscite was promised in the UN. But all was quietly forgotten. Betrayal all along. There is no effect without cause. There is no fire without spark.Since 1962 Kashmniris Muslims are virtually prisoners on their own soil. There officially some 700000 Indian soldiers, para-military forces and police since 1962. Visitors to Kashmir are appalled at the scale of military and police literally holding a police under siege. Hundreds of women have raped . Not two as has been remarked by our friend here.Some 2700 bodies of mostly young men in mass graves have been recently discovered embarrassing the Government of India before the world . This kind of news you can see only in the Al Jazeera Tv and Press TV. This is the evidence I can give you. You have to watch these channels all the time. They are neither Indian nor Pakistani . So views and information are as it is.
Again talking of Muslim minorities in India there is a difference. In the South it is different. South Indians are more tolerant. Probably because they were less or not affected by partition of the country.
You cannot compare people like Modi, Togadia,Rathambara and their likes with the Pakistani names you have mentioned. These Pakistanis like Hamid Gul,zaki-ur rehman are not completely part of the country’s system like members of the CIA. They have their own agenda.But they did not advocate the genocide of Minorities of Pakistan in any way.
People like Modi and others are clearly fascists . They openly advocate genocide of Indian citizens just because they belong to a different religion. In fact genocide was carried on in Gujarat to prove their point.If this was done in a western country they would have been arrested and prosecuted for their crimes of racial hate and genocide.And their political party banned.But democratic shining India lets them go free. This is my lament.
Do you know how many trouble makers were arrested in Pakistan? In fact one of the strong reasons why Musharraf lost the elections and thrown out was because of his over enthusiasm in arresting trouble makers. Hundreds of political activists were arrested and tortured by the Pakistani Government. How many of her terrorist political leaders has India arrested? None in my view.So who is more democratic. ‘Feudal undemocratic Pakistan’ or ‘democratic shining India’. To unravel this irony would certainly be a task.
There are some comments that disagree that 50% Indians remained in India of their own free choice. I request them to read the works of Maulana Abul Kalam Azad and his view on the partition of India.
Rezan,
First of all thanks for appreciating but let me clear few points which you raise here.
Ok Pakistan is a not completely an democratic country so things can’t be equal between India and Pakistan. Now if you are talking about freedom of speech in India and relating it with Jaswant Singh then you should keep in mind that Jaswant Singh was expelled from his party but didn’t get punished by government system or court. And afterall it was an political which we’ll discuss later.
I don’t have enough information about Babri so I’ll not discuss about it. Now let’s come to the point of Jinnah’s hand shake experience with Hindu then I’ll say that mostly Hindu families are vegetarian and condemn non-veg so if a Hindu person take non-veg and will meet the same family and if they know that the person has taken non-veg then that family will behave same as they behaved with Jinnah. If a person of the same family take non-veg and come to home they’ll not touch him also untill he don’t go for bath. So, it was not a muslim, it was an non-veg habit was responsible for such behaviour.
I’ll say Jinnah was lucky that family hand shaked to Jinnah but at that time people were so uneducated that they don’t even touch few Hindu person’s which we call “Untouchability”. Jinnah was aware about this fact but he didn’t thought about that, he directly jumped to a conclusion that Hindu don’t like Muslims. Jinnah made a single mistake that considering himself that much intelligent that nobody can fool him and this overconfidence get noticed by britisher’s and they took advantage.
Now if you say that muslims in India don’t get their right and justice then you must have researched about it or you’ve refered any authentic report regarding this. If you’ve any kind of authentic proof let me see. I’m not showing a rosy picture it’s true, yes ofcourse there are some problems exists but it doesn’t mean that muslims in India are slaves of Hindus.
Now let’s come to burning issue about Kashmir. I agree that Raja Hari Singh was non-muslim leading the area of muslim population. So I’ve a question that what do you think is the solution of Kashmir? Should India give Kashmir to Pakistan? You’re saying that Kashmiri people don’t get freedom or their right to vote then why terrorists always try to stop them to go for voting? Why terrorists try to stop election in Kashmir? Several time India’d taken openion of Kashmiri people and they chosen to be a part with India but you don’t accept it.
If Kashmiri people should get the right to give their opinion then what do you think about Balochistan? Shouldn’t they get a chance to express their opinion? Kashmir is an important part of India and directly related to India’s soveregnity and pride so India can’t let anybody to take Kashmir in any way. Kashmir become part of India by their will and after 1948 war India took independent opinion of Kashmiri people you didn’t accepted it why? What do you think about Tibbat? China attacked on tibbat and says it is their region and if you’ll even say that tibbat is a free nation then they’ll attack on you. So who is more democratic? I’ve gone thoroughly to the history of Kashmir and Indo-Pak, Sino-Indian wars and relations that’s why I’m confident about my arguments. Are you confident enough?
And last I’m not comparing Modi, Togadia with Hamid Gul, Zaki-ur rehman because they are different people and they work for their interest. I’ve seen an television interview in which Mr. Hamid Gul was saying about Mumbai attack and he was saying that suppose if we sent 10 terrotist to India and they’ve done that much then think what will happen if we send 1000 terrorists to India??? What he was saying “Nani yaad aa jayegi”. This was Hamid Gul.
At least take action on the mastermind behind mumbai attack but you always seems to point on India and always come with new execuse sometime with inappropriate evidences and sometime other matters.
Think on it.
I appreciate your policy yarr….. “I will type a post of more than 2000 words, but I will never ever give any links to substantiate my thoughts”
Keep it up….. Everything is your Myths…. Son of the soil.
“1240???!!!
Even Islam did not spread into South Asia until after the 13th century!
What rubbish are you talking about?
I just give up.”
Islam first came to India in early 8th century, NOT 13th! You cannot make stupid comments first and then try to rewrite history to suit your comments, understand?
Yes, you better give up. And GO BACK TO SCHOOL! I am serious!
Ok Mr arrogant rude Qanda
I thought we were talking about Islamic rule in India. Now you have taken us back into the advent of Islam in the world. Islam came not just to India in the 8th century but to the entire world.But that discussion was not relevant to ours. I was talking about Muslim loyalty and devotion to India during their rule. Thank you so much for reminding all of us here. In fact all the Indians should know this compulsorily because in spite of Muslims living in India for such a long time they are still referred to as ‘foreigners’ or not completely Indians.This is in reference to the comments made so often by the far right Hindu parties that Muslims in India are not real Indians and that they should be thrown back to countries of the Middle east,or Pakistan or wherever.
Islam entered India in the most peaceful form through preachers especially in the southern coast of India. It is historically documented that the king of Kerala was one of the first to adopt Islam as his religion.This is the reason why there are so many Muslims in Kerala. Yes you are right All this began in the 8th century. But then we have to separate religion from history and politics if we wish to make our discussions clear. Nevertheless I must say I admire your passion and interest in the history of Islam.
You should read the works by Karen Armstrong, Carl Ernst, John Esposito, Syed Hussein Nasr ,Prof Akbar Ahmed and many others to get a thorough grasp of this subject.
Thank you again.
Mr.Rezan
If you were talking about Islamic rule, that too made a start in the 8th century when Mohmed ibn Qasim overran Sind upto Multan. But that is beside the point. What you see as my arrogance and rudeness is in fact just impatience, which maybe equally bad. It is impatience with the way you make statements and proclamations without first getting your facts right. As I already said, you are not allowed to rewrite history to suit your argument; it has got to be the other way! And think twice before you make sweeping statements like “you Indians don’t know anything about Islamic history”, because you might get caught on the wrong foot!
I have nothing but respect for Islam, although I am myself an agnostic. You mentioned the king of Kerala who embraced Islam. That king was Cheraman Perumal who went to Mecca and never returned, and my ancestors may have been his subjects. I live a few kilometres from his capital, Kodungallur. His mosque, the very first on the coast, is still functioning and we protect it. I have many close muslim friends and often dine with their families, so don’t get wrong ideas! The trouble is when you try to project Pakistan as the protector of Islam. Pakistan may have a lot of “muslims”, but very little “Islam”. The two are different.
This discussion is a waste of time as I see it, and so I’m quitting. I should utilise my time more profitably elsewhere.
Thanks for recommending those books.
Mr Qanda,
First of all thank you for writing so positively about Islam. Your remark ‘I have noting but admiration for Islam’ enthralled me. But unfortunately very few Indians have this opinion. They always refer to Islam as ‘terrorist religion’just because of some violent actions of a few individuals who merely protest against the injustices of certain countries. They insult our Books,our Prophet and the entire ‘Ummah’ the world Islamic community with the active co-operation of the media especially in the West. The Christian fundamentalist radio of the US has a 24-hour propaganda station against Islam and all Muslims. I do not have to repeat the atrocities being committed by the western powers against Islamic countries today nor talk about the fiery anti-Muslim hate speeches by the far right Hindu political parties of India.
You only have to see some Indian websites to believe what I am saying.The hatred they preach is unbelievable.
I never said that Pakistan is a protector of Islam. Neither did I say that all Indians are ignorant of Islam.In fact in one of my postings i had mentioned names of people like Yoginder Sikand,Ram Puniyani,Romila Thapar etc.
Pakistan is today unfortunately more political than religious. In fact it is going against the principles of Islam. Thus there is a division in Pakistani society today.
In my reply to you I had even suggested that we should not confuse religion with politics.
Your views are rare. This is what i meant when I wrote to Capton that our views and our judgement arise according to our backgrounds,our life circumstances. the environment we live in and our regional influence. Our ideas are formed according to this.
This discussion was not a waste of time as you say. Some good things came out of it after all. Some corrections were made.
In the flurry of modern politics the human mind can play tricks and one can go wrong with historical dates and names etc. So these should be politely overlooked.
I had also the opportunity of recommending you some books and my respect for the Kerala people has grown.
Thank you again.
@Rezan,
by the way what is your thought
on Hinduism ?
..and how Hinduism/Hindus are protected in
Pakistan ?
I can clearly say that you want to befriend a Indian Muslim.
Please don’t do that…. And here is an example that you are miximg up Religion(Islam) with each and every item in this world.
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“The Clash Within: Democracy, Religious Violence, and India’s Future”
May 9, 2007
Lecture by Martha Nussbaum, the Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Law and Ethics at the University of Chicago.
While America is focused on religious militancy and terrorism in the Middle East, democracy has been under siege from religious extremism in another critical part of the world. As Martha Nussbaum reveals in The Clash Within, the forces of the Hindu right pose a disturbing threat to India’s democratic traditions and secular state.
From the World Beyond the Headlines Series.
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I’ve a question to all what what is “Mission 2012″? This was an statement of an Pakitani spy caught in India few months back. He was claiming that Pakitan is aiming to launch a large scale military attack on India on 2012? Initially I didn’t believe it but recent actions inside pakistan border are forcing me to believe in it.
Pakistan feels exactly the same way. It feels India is making full preparations to attack Pakistan. So like I had mentioned we all think according to circumstances and environment and experience. The whole thing is a matter of opinion. Heroes are villains for some and vice versa.Right becomes wrong and vice versa.This is the unfortunate situation in today’s world.
salaam,
everyone must know that indian army mostly depends on sikhs and Muslims also.and em also a sardar and i know vry well tht we almost r people. and hindus using us against Muslims but in the hindi videos they always show us fool(sardar) persons.The thing is tht the main difference is
Hindus worships many things like cow as (maata).
They all are mostly vegetarians.
they always make strategies to develop them and with it to degrade others(Muslims)
but in Pakistani Muslims i c a grt thing that is sacrifice. and i think they are the most courageous warrior in this world if thre leadership would strong.
like in 1965 more thn 500 soldiers(pakistani) pushed them under our tanks and blasted them. they always can kill there ownself for the sake of Allah and there motherland. Mlitants US called Freedom fighters against ussr and today now they are terrorist what the hell is this??? US always using them for there own benefits.
and in the history mostly 99% Muslim are involved in suiside bombing bcze they dont afraid from death. CAN ANY HINDU KILL HIMSELF LIKE THIS????????????????????????????????
sorry if em hurting anyone. u can discus it wth me.thnx tcrz
Kindly attend a spoken English Class, No offence meant.
if u wl i mst b wth u 2 attnd clsses…….??lol.
“in the history mostly 99% Muslim are involved in suiside bombing bcze they dont afraid from death. CAN ANY HINDU KILL HIMSELF LIKE THIS?????”
The Suicide bombing in this world was started by the Hindus…. Confused… LTTE…. Only after them the Suicide bombing popular..
Dont agree with me… Search CIA website
This stupid hardcore Indian is spoiling everybody’s mood on this forum. The sooner we throw him out the better.Go back to your fanatical Hindu sites Mr Hard core . You do not belong here.
First of all it is not Urdu that is written inside walls of the Taj but Quranic Arabic. The entire verses of the Quran are written inside the Taj. Even to learn to write Quranic Arabic it takes years and years, This is why Muslim children start learning and writing the language from the age of five. Those who do not, find it very very hard to write later on in life in spite of following the religion seriously. They regret this very very much. So not even all Muslims read and write Arabic owing to their being educated in English and other languages or owiing to their living in non- Muslim countries. Learning to write Arabic has become something private nowadays. But in countries like Malaysia ,Indonesia, Central Asia,Muslim African countries(which make up more than half of the continent) and of course countries of the Middle east this language is learnt at young age.
So the above argument totally defeats your absurd theory written by some fanatical Hindu who is obviously a hater of all Muslims of the world that the Taj was built by Hindus. Are you trying to tell us that all these Hindu masons actually learnt Quranic Arabic in their mature age and then actually wrote it in the authentic style inside the Taj? Does it make any damn sense. The only people who can write this unusual script are those Muslims who have trained and taught from the very early age of 3-5 and who grow up writing this language. These masons were those who were brought from Persia.These people also knew to read and write the Quranic script.
Show us one monument in the entire land of India that resembles the Taj mahal. They could not even imitate it.But one sees so many buildings like the Taj in Iran and Central Asia.Is this not proof enough? Another very important point to be noted is that these Mughal Kings were very strict in their religious beliefs. They would never have allowed any non-believer to even write the words of the Quran because they consider this very, very sacred That in their eyes would be the greatest sin. Only a believing Muslim would be allowed to write Quranic words. This was nothing but Persian and Turkish architecture.
The fanatical far right Hindu politicians have paid massive amounts to people like your swami to write such articles. So it is not surprising to read such trash.
Do not waste your time here with your donkey brain theories and your idiotic references based on anti-Muslim hatred. The world is far more intelligent and informed to believe such trash and stupid nonsense.
There is a systematic propaganda of hate against the entire Muslim community of India since after partition. The far right fanatical bigoted Hindu parties came into power and spread this hate even further . They went far even to deny Islamic architecture as being such. Next they will say that all the mosques too were built by the Hindus! Can Muslim architects build temples like the Hindu masons or architects? They will not and cannot.There is a complete distinction between various arts and architecture in this world.Islamic architecture stands out as unique with its domes and spires as seen in the Taj. It is also seen in many buildings apart from the mosques. Hindu architecture has its own uniqueness but it is entirely different and only Hindu craftsmen can do it.
All Muslims of India and Pakistan do not consider themselves to be Persian. You cannot deny the fact that India was ruled by Muslims of Central Asia and Persia for a thousand years. Hence the massive Islamic influence in the Indian sub-continent today. Influence in the form of art,architecture,literature,poetry apparel,music and of course cuisine. The Mughal rule brought grandeur and beauty to dry and dark India.
Islam came to India in the 8th century. So the Muslims of India are pretty much Indian as anybody else although they may vary in culture and beliefs.Indians come to the shores of the US,UK and other western countries,live for a five years and demand a green card,British passport or whatever. These countries in spite of a conglomeration of international communities still offer them the citizenship of their countries. These Indians proudly call themselves ‘American’,British, ‘French’ or whatever. All after a matter of five years. 14 centuries is a pretty long time for Muslims of the sub-continent not to be looked upon as Indians.
Yes,India was partitioned on the basis of communal lines. But this was politics. If your fanatical revenge seeking vicious minded Hindu leaders political leaders did not create the animosity between two communities this would not have happened. As I had mentioned before Jinnah was known to be champion of Hindu Muslim amity. His fight was for merely the liberation of India. He soon found to his shock that Muslims who gave their lives for Indian Congress were being back stabbed. This is why he chose to create Pakistan a land for the security for Muslims of India.But unfortunately there two camps with divided opinions. People like Maulana Abul Kalam Azad who believed in the ‘two circle’ theory as he called it. ‘I am a devout Muslim as much as I am a devout Indian’ he said.He dismissed the idea of Pakistan. So 50% remained back in India while the rest chose a new land.Which decision was right is proved by today’s political situation in both the countries. Muslims in India especially in the north apart from a few exceptions still live in insecurity, fear and hopelessness in spite of 62 years after partition. They find no jobs easily .Even affluent Muslims find it difficult to find housing in leading cities of India. The Muslims in Pakistan had unfortunately no sound leadership owing to constant military rule and other ethnic problems. Hence there are economic and social problems. But this is a different situation totally.I am being fair on this statement and not at all biased.
The views expressed by Indians of South India are different from those of North Indians. North India and South India are like two different countries.From your views I take it you are Tamil from the South. You have a long way to go to get a good grasp of entire South Asian history. Good luck.
Rezan, cool down and consider this as my personal advise that don’t jump to a conclusion without proper analysis and understanding the point. First try to think that what HardCoreIndian said. He’s not claiming that Taj Mahal was built by an hindu king but he’s saying that muslim king couldn’t be able to make it untill he didn’t got the skilled labor and technicians and most of them were non-muslims. It doesn’t mean that muslim people and technicians were not involved it means it was an team work of both hindu and muslim people in the form of labour and knowledge.
See you can’t deny the fact that if we exclude few muslim ruler then most muslim ruler came as attacker and they destroyed the hindu temples. They broke the scupltures of hindu god and I’ve seen few of those sculpture. This is also a fact that many muslim buildings and mosques were build in the place of temples which were destroyed for this purpose. But it was that time and this time is different. We can’t do about history but we can save our present and future.
If you want to know the truth then research about India before muslim aggression and you’ll find that India was not a dry and dark. There is a glorious history before muslim aggression. Decayed community, fighting kings, corruption was a single side of a picture and a small part. Search about Chandragupta Mourya and you’ll know that he was the greatest king in the indian history had done unmatched work for public. His empire were that much biggest that Mughal and even Britisher’s could only dream it but couldn’t get it. Chandragupta Mourya’s empire included Pakistan, Afganistan, Myamar, Java, Sumatra, Maleysia etc. His empire shared border with Iran and china.
Can you imagine that at the time of Chandragupta Mourya gold and diamonds were used to sold on roads like vegetables. This was the India who was shiner then any country and were major exporter of goods, spices, diamonds, golds etc to Europian countries. And this was the thing which attracted many muslim attackers. They came for looting India and this was the thing due to which Babar decided to stay in India. If you don’t believe just research about it.
And if you are talking about Arabic language then I don’t agree that a language takes that much time. It depends upon personal capacity, few can learn it within few months and few takes years.
You are again and again telling that Indian muslims are not happy and they are not getting their right then I’m again and again asking you to give any relevent proof and I’ve explained the necessity of proof here. Without any proof your words would be taken as speech of a play.
Very easily you divided India into two countries, North India and South India. But see this is not Koria or Germany, this is India and it can’t be divided. Think once that what is Pakistan’s current position among world’s eye? Nothing, European countries consider Pakistan as a failed state and they don’t count you guys. Now if see Pakistan as Indian state and then your position will raise automatically because if India includes Pakistan as it’s state then there are no country who can challange India. Not even USA and China and world would respect you but we all not that much lucky.
Think once that how it could be better if there were no borders and Pakistan as indian state then might we were giving each other best wishes of future and using our time in for some creative things like career, education etc. Don’t you want to see Taj Mahal without any visa, passport and no limit live anywhere you want, work anywhere. But unfortunately nobody is here ready to understand because everybody is not ready to throw their narrow mindedness and specticles of religion, blind nationalism and hate. Good Luck to all here because you all are wasting time rather then doing some creative.
I heard that Pakistanis knows only to speak…. They are not fit for anything else and they will call themselves that they are equal to India in all the fields… So thought to speak to some Pakistanis…
But I am sorry to say they are not speaking anything with logic…. If I tell anything they will bring in Islam into it….. They cannot live, breathe, speak, write even shit without thinking Islam….
History = Myth for Pakistan….. Rezan used to tell me that I have never read the History about the sub continent, But unfortunately I know Mughal History more than him.
He told there were nothing good mentioned about the MUghals in Indian History.
http://www.textbooksonline.tn.nic.in/Books/09/Std09-SS-EM.pdf
http://www.textbooksonline.tn.nic.in/
The Above Links are taken from the textbooks…. It is the Government site, So it should be taken as a valid Proof.
@Brilliant Rezan,
You have lauded Capton and Quanda for typing things in a real nice way… Can they tell that I am a stupid and spoiling the mood of the members of the forum.
Or can you get Omer Jamil to tell that I am spoil the mood of forum? If I am not telling anything that suits your advantage… I am spoiling the mood of the Forum…. Hum… Baseless probaganda…
Since time immemorial the Indian sub-continent Belonged to the Dravidians…. Later came the Aryans… Then the Muslims and then the English.
I am a dravidian… This Indian sub-continent is ours more than yours… I know these types of discussions does not get us anywhere… but How can you tell I do not belong here? None of your concern… Who asked you to reply to my posts?
I sincerly ask you a Question? You told some stories like the Arabic is very hard to write and is the most difficult bla, bla bla… (I hope you will even tell that Microsoft, Citi Bank and Google hires only the people who knows to read and write Arabic.. I cant remain laughing.)
Building Taj Mahal is more difficult task than writing on the walls that most cannot Understand… I never told that the Writings were written by Hindu masons…. It could have been written by the great scholars from Persia…. Taj Mahal is not famous for those writings…. It is famous for the building… Which was built by Hindu Masons… It took 22 years to built the Taj Mahal there were more that 20000 workers working daily…. If the mughal rulers had welcomed 20000 workers from Persia then the ratio of Muslim to India could have tourned to 60:40…..
Kindly let me know which building in Persia is as famous as Taj Mahal and similar to taj mahal…. If you built on 20X20 building and say if it is same as TajMahal… Then I can call you fool….. You are telling what I tell is so false…. Give me a valid article which says otherwise… Else never ever speak to me or reply to me.
For those reading it… Please go to the site Which I mentioned before and see who are all the Authors and the proof readers at the bottom of the page and even you can get in touch with them to know the truth… It is not a news which get published in No-Name Pakistan News papers….
You call me anti-Pakistani… To an extent I agree, I am against Pakistan Government and Army not against Pakistanis… But you are try to show me as a anti-muslim…… All that you guys want is that the Indian Hindu should kill Indian Muslim and Vice versa…. All your comments shows that type of wish…. But that will never ever happen.
Simple difference… Indian Muslim have brain to think… where as this is not the case with Pakistani Muslim…. All the time you guys speak about Gujarat Incidents…. No one is telling that it is for good, Everyone condems it…… Indian Muslims know it.
Dry and Dark India…. Oops…. Indian temples had Huge gold and Dimond reserves…. that is what attracked all the Invaders.
Except one or two Mughal Rulers… Everyone else are busy in increasing the number of wifes they had….. Nothing in science and technology developed during that time… How can you expect Cap manufaturers to know about Science and Technology… All they can know is just Madrassas…. Which unfortunately has nothing releted to Maths or Science.
I have no obligation to prove you otherwise of what you had learned from myth….. If the muslims in India hate Indian rule… I hope they can go to Pakistan at anytime… We are not stopping them…
I told about LTTE and you have judged I am a Tamilan…. I can tell you I know to speak Tamil, But I am not a Tamilian…..
You cannot divide the Indian Muslims and Hindus…. I know much more than about the Indian History than you… Your references to Mumtaz Mahal and Sultana Razia and my correction prove it beyond doubt.
Check this link out.
http://sify.com/news/shah-rukh-deserves-nishaan-e-pakistan-bal-thackeray-news-national
Mr Bal thackeray has made a vitriolic comment on the Indian actor Sharrukh Khan who has popularised Indian films across the world and certainly deserves the highest appreciation from all Indians. This ugly comment was made by mr thackeray bigoted hindu as he is just because shahrukh criticised the exclusion of Pakistani cricket team for the IPL. This was a matter of sports. How this comment is so exaggerated and vicious only shows how revengeful and hateful these Indian politicians are .No matter even if the Muslims of India give their lives to prove their loyalty they will never never be appreciated. Imagine if they were in power they would created a holocaust in India against all Muslims.
APJ Kalam, AR Rehman,Aamir Khan, Salman Khan, Shahrukh Khan, Ustad Bismillah khan, Zakhir Hussain, Allah Rakha, Mohamad Azharuddin(until match fixing), Zaheer Khan, Pathan brothers, Nawab of Pataudi, Shabna Azmi, Gulzar, Javed Akthar, MF Hussain.
I have not even specified 1/10000th of the name here. All are world famous celebrated muslims of India.
I want you to name a few famous Hindus of Pakistan
Bal Thakrey… A good Joker…..
We don’t consider him as an national politician…. He can never be one…. He have rosen up by acting against the South Indians, His nephew Raj Thakrey followed his foot paths and acted against North Indians….
If you have mullah’s why can’t we have Hindu politicians…
His comments are not taken so seriously…. Shah Rukh Khan knows it…
“only shows how revengeful and hateful these Indian politicians are” You are creating a big scene… The Indian government had reacted so critically when Shah Rukh was frisked in US Airport.
We can also imagine what if Pakistan takes over Kashmir from India.. But it is never going to happen, Like wise these jokers cannot come to power especially in Maharastra…..
capton. U always ask for proof and evidence. Go toww.sify.com .Read today’s headlines of bal Thackeray’s comments n Sharukh Khan.Most of all read the postings and comments by the public on this subject. You will then believe what tell about Indian Hindus hatred for Indian Muslims.
Bal Thakeray & Raj Thakeray belongs to the same category in which Hamid gul and Zakir-Ul-Rahman Lakwi (pardon if spelling wrong) who don’t have any business with country’s development and growth. They only want to get power and for this they can do anything.
You also know that what Sharukh said but to understand this Thakeray need to have a normal brain but his brain is busy in getting existance in Maharashtra. In this case I’m repeating your words that they are not an important part of community. It’s nothing just a political stunt and it is not the thought of India. Thakeray’s power is decreasing and such type of guys have no future that’s why they raise such useless issues for their benefit and plays with brains for local average minded people.
Thakeray has influence on only few lacs people and the reason is fear and politics but Sharukh has influence in overall the world so you should consider Sharukh khan’s words.
This can’t be proof as this is a crap of Thakrey. Such type of people must be jailed or shooted. I suggest you to take thorough research about both country’s muslims and you’ll know the truth.
People like Thackeray,Modi and their likes are easily dismissed as lunatics or trouble makers but they command a great respect among a fair section of the Hindu society in Maharashtra and Gujarat. They are looked upon as heroes. One cannot easily ignore them. They end up creating havoc for India’s democracy.How a man like Modi is allowed to not only hang on in power but is looked upon with admiration by even some south Indians.
Even if one agrees to your comments not to take these people seriously just read the comments sent by the pubic in general. Did you notice the hate for all Muslims. One comment said:’All Khans are traitors’. Another went right back into Mughal history. They seem to just wait for a chance and then the true nature comes out.
I however appreciate your optimistic and positive viewpoint and wish more Indians think like you.
What about Hindus and Hinduism in Pakistan ?
extinct ?
How their numbers were drastically reduced since
independence ?
Of course Thackeray has an influence on few thousand people but when you’ll compare it with overall population of maharashtra or Mumbai then you’ll know that this ratio is very small. Few thousand people agree with him because most of them are not well educated, they are poor and don’t have jobs. Thakarey noticed this frustation and used it for his benefit. Even he also knows that they can’t get jobs untill they don’t become eligible for it.
Nobody would agree to give job a person having less skill over a highly skilled person on the basis of region or state. Thakrey also know this fact but few people don’t understand this and consider Thakarey as a hero without knowing the fact that he is playing with their minds.
Although it is very shameful for an Indian that such type of people is not get punished just because politics. Yes few people agree with Thakery’s words but they are not such arogant that they beat North Indian people. Shiv Sena and MNS party’s member’s are doing this to come in focus that they are doing for local public.
A normal Indian knows the truth behind this and that’s why Thakery’s value is not more than a street dog in India. India is more friendly to any country untill it not hurts their country’s interests. See everything can’t be perfect instantly there also few problems exists but it doesn’t meant that whole country thinks like that.
Once take a look on your political speeches, Hamid Gul, Lakvi etc. who are poisioning whole community. Why can’t you stop them?
Rezan,
Now I want to show you a link
http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/india_belongs_to_all_indians_rahul_gandhi.php?page=1
see the response against Thakeray’s nonsense speech. This is the link of local Indian site and all comments are made by Indians and you’ll not find even a single comment agree with Thakery. Do you know why? just because Thakeray can influence few uneducated people but he can’t fool the whole community.
come on Hassan keema… one more time!!
post the same comment again.. its still not making waves
Pakistan is the most powerful country of the world. I assure all the world if India wants to war against Pakistan than it will be the last mistake of India. And Pakistan will beat the India in all the fields of the life. Insha Allah.
Nauman Nazir,
Keep dreaming but you must left the ostrich habit of avoiding truths. The truth is Pakistan is the factory of terrorism from where terrorists are spreaded to all over the world. And what powerful? USA is killing your people and you are saying you are powerful? What happened in 1971?
@Nauman Nazir
How old are you, son? Is this the bedtime story your ammi told you last night?….:D
Do you Care to dot down the fields that you are mentioning about…..
There is a proverb ‘Barking dog seldom bite’
Why dont we just let each other live as we want. I ask indians to please look into your countys actions with some neutrality. India is the one that had trained hundreds of thousands of Mukti Baini “Militants N Terrorists” that brrke our country into half. Im sure though that our leaders helped you guys in finishing that job too.. Our govts may have supported militant training camps but those were our strategic weapons against your mighty yet coward army. Your army has the highest rate of suicides in the world. Also u have tortured n killed many muslims hundreds of thousands of kashmiris, supported by ur consecutive govts. I assure you, the biggest state sponsored terrorist are ur soldiers.
Having said that, i agree we have problems, but those are our problems nad they arent for you to worsen. You got it?? You have no idea about the bravery of a Muslim who knows the transcendial nature of this worldly life without any fear whtsoever from death.
As per the religion goes, yes we r first muslims then pakis. Our country was made for islam, although alot of things never let it reach that potential. But still, it was for the sake of the religion of one and only God. Dont get intimidated by our faith in the unseen n dont ridicule cuz no one knows the ultimate truth. The point here is that, we muslims believe that this world is just a veryyyy short test our Allah has given us to see who is worthy for the ultimate rewards. Kindly do not make fun of our believes n religion. We will appreciate it. What you do with your lives in this world n with the country that ur so proud of is all upto u. Just dont expect us to think n feel about this worldly material life as u guys do. We are just hear to follow the commands of our Allah and His messenger and hope to pass in this test.
Im really sorry to disappoint u that our religion is a way of life commanded by the only God and not a choice in practice as yours. Plz refrain from this hatred for our faith as you dont know who you are insulting. May god forgive you all and give u guidance.
Take care
Usman,
When you born then even you didn’t know that who you were, Muslim or non muslim. It was your family who told that you are a muslim. So any person is not a muslim immediately when he born its’ you and we who make him muslim or Hindu.
And for which muslims you are talking about India’s muslim? So if they are your brother then ask to terrorist who attacked to mumbai that why they killed everyone without thinking that is he muslim or non muslim? They killed who came in front them. This is true.
The bomb you plant in Indian cities, the terrorists you send to india all kills muslims too. Your terrorists come to Kashmir and kills muslim population and you says it’s liberation war!! Wow! what a great supporter you are.
When you were born you were only a human in which added a brain and heart but you spoiled it with such hated thoughts Terrorist are not made by giving weapons to them but adding hate in their mind what you called “Jehad”. You spoiled the meaning of Jehad. Shame on you. You don’t deserve to be called a muslim otherwise you can’t talk like this or go and read Kuran and see what it says that don’t kill innocent people, love them. Are your terrorist doing this in India?
Capton,
Either ur really stupid n arrogant or ur just there to malign muslims n pakistan. Wht sort of intellect do u have to generalize about 170 million population with 20 terrorist that created havoc in ur cities… Dont pee urself man, our nation is bearing this terrorim everyday. these guys have nothin to do with islam.. they are poor brainwashed mercenaries that might have support from our agencies just like the TTP has from ur agencie.. So dont generalize something about my nation based on these guys.. they dont represent us.. N u know wht, all souls are muslims even before they r conceived in bodies, its done in heaven.. u may not believe tht but i do..
Usman,
Go to POK and see the terrorist camps NOT 1 or 2 they are 20-30 in number in which terrorists are trained to attack on India. OK you don’t have time for it the just search in internet about Jakir rahman Lakwi and other extremist what they are saying about India.
India provided solid proof which FBI and CIA also confirmed and your government also accepted about this but what happened? Your government is just doing a play to catch them and then release them by saying insufficient evidences.
If your government is that much true then why they’re not getting ready to voice test for suspected leaders and persons in Pakistan to match them with the conversation recorded in cell phone?
What you’re facing now is your product We’re facing it since last 30 years and you cultivated this evil to get kashmir. You’ve sparked this fire in which you’re burning now.
It hurts na?? Obviously hurts but this is true if you don’t believe then just go and see the independent reports. Then decide who is stupid and for what you are calling me arrogant?
You first started to tell about invading India and at this time nobody can listen this crap. Why don’t you guys live with peace and accept that you’ll never ever get kashmir.
IT IS NOT FAIR . INDIA WILL LOSE ANY WAR WITH PAKISTAN INSHALLAH
Oh, I hope India had a war with Pakistan in 1971….. I hope India divided East Pakistan from West and a new country call Bangladesh was born.
I hope you are mentioning about the war which you dremt last night.
If we are talking about Muslims in India… then I was really surprised to see what Shabana Aazmi said in an interview. She said “If Shabana Aazmi and Javed Akhtar cant buy a house in Mumbai then what sort of secularism are we talking about?” I also remember Musharraf’s reply to Moulana Madani in India.
The only thing is that Indian Muslims are those who had belief in “Bhagti Tehreek” which said “country/nations comes first” and then the religion. Every child is by birth a Muslim… (If you are a true Muslim… you won’t deny this) and after that we are divided into tribes, countries and regions.
How many of Muslims in India are a part of Govt. offices? only 2%.
Why??? Think over it…
If you say we should see what’s happening in Pakistan because of Talibans… then I would say… we are treating them really bad… they are blasting in different cities and innocent civilians are dying because of that… but that is their anger because Pakistan Military Forces are taking strong actions against them in areas where they have stronghold. The World is Admiring and Admitting This.
I also admit that India is in the race of becoming Asian Tiger (or in their dreams… a world power) and they will never want to be destroyed by Pakistani Nuclear Weapons which are always more powerful that of Indian’s…
As far as Kashmir is concerned…. it is a disputed territory and neither Pakistan nor India can claim its ownership.
I would say one thing…. India and Pakistan should be united and become a greater PAKISTAN….
Jawad Khan,
Why should India dissolve in Pakistan?? India is a bigger country and has 80% non muslim population then why should India dissolve into a muslim nation? Tell me why?
India is a bigger country and more powerful then your imagination. And if you think muslims are brave then non muslims are not coward. The problem is that you don’t learned any lesson from history that is underestimating other’s power. You attacked with superior weapon to India in 1965 aiming to capture Dehli but what happened? Go to Khemkharan, and see what is true. You came with a whole tank regiment to attack on indian army which were outnumbered their but your whole regiment destroyed.
Battle is fought by weapons but to win it needs dare, high morals and strategy. You raped your country women in east pakistan which resulted into raise of bangladesh. India was not responsible for that but You were responsible. Do you understand!!!
we eat’s your ghain mata,who are you????????????all hindu are kids hahahahaahha,i challenge to all hindu, i am coming …………
Oye shoib,
Mind your language otherwise you’ll forget abusing anybody else when we’ll reply in same manner. You are coming???
Come baby come but be prepared for this because you’ll never return to your country if you came with a mind to invade india.
This forum is for discussion and debate where issues are raised and discussed together to understand each other and find some way for positives. Your abusive language can’t make any difference here until you’ve something to say important.
So Go to your hole and come with some solid facts.
ghain ka pishaap penay wali koom ho tum hum se kia fight karo gay ghandi ko dhkha ha kabi us ki ghand may danda main nay dia tha ………..
@shoib
Aur itna hi ghand main danda sekhna hai to india main aakar dekh tab pata chalega ki ghand main danda kya hota hai. Ham sikha denge tuge ki abuse kaise kiya jata hai.
Don’t test our passion and talk gently but don’t forget we know each language to deal with you.
dear capton
me ne tamam coments purhey, mjy both afsos hua indian’s
people ki soch per, america aur europe waley dono
countries ko bewaquf bna
k arms sell kr rhy hen, es k ilewa apney maqasid bi purey kr
rhy hen, pakistan me terarist sub ko pta he, america ne afghan
war pakistan me transfer kr di, pakistan ko destablized krne
k liey, aur es me india ka bi kafi role he, india afghanistan se terrarist trained kr k balochistan behj rha he, ye hi
reality he.
give me proof, solid proof which is confirmed by an independent source or non pakistani source.
Capton
waqar is saying truly that indians army and agencies are properly involved in pakistani terrirsum.
one proof i will proof to you
In sharm-ul-sheikh when pakistani priem minister gillani rose this point that why indian army and agancies provide amunation and provides training to militants in pakistan then gillani provide some usefull proof to indian prime minister manmohan singh that indians involves in balochistan and the amunation which is used in terrist activities, is produced in india. So when gillani present this point, indian prime minster accept it and did promise to control but when manmohan singh retured backed to india, indian parlimant took action against manmohan singh that why you accept it
so my dear, here i want ot tell you that indian army, agencies and there politicans and even indian media speaks wrong about pakistan and they always try to destablise pakistan and when anyone provides some proof then they says, not it is not right and when fortunatly when some one accept it then indian politicans take action against them.
and one thng i want to mention here if pakistan will destablize than india will automatically destablized
Dear Indians,
please check the Muslim Nastradamous”Naimatullah shah Wali” predictions .
He predicted 900 years back. his predictions are correct word by word about world.
he has done some predictions about indian sub-continent.
I do not want to tell u any thing. let u people urself check the future of u people.
Simple logic…. If every thing in this world will happen per the prediction of some person, then why do humans pray to Allah or Jesus or Buddha or Rama or God XYZ.
The purpose of god is to protect the innocent from all evils and destroys all evils….. If a god cannot protect me then why the hell I should worship him?
may Allah protect us(Pakistan) form evils(Indian)
Because there politicans wants to destablized by using beast indian army
but Indians don’t know that pakistan army is Allah’s army and have a better deffense or aggressive ability against any evils and beast army. so to know this fact indains trained militants and use them against pakistan whish is said as a fort of islam.
May allah protect us hindu tallban
and all positive mind indian people should also prayer for same about pakistani
Madrass Trash… Don’t reply.
i dnt want to say anything aggressive aginst the indians ………i only want peace in south asia and balance of power..i m Pakistani and i m proud of it………Pakistan zindabad.
Balance of Power? In what area?
these are some translations Naimatullah Shah wali.
his foretellings remaind 100% correct word by word.
plz see some exmples of it below.
Then Wali says that British will leave the subcontinent and there will be a lot of bloodshed.
Wali said,It would be evident to the whole world that India would be clearly divided into two parts.Sikhs will slaughter the Muslims. [happened during the partition]. Due to hypocrisy and cheating there would be a lot of tragedies, massacres and carnage, Shah Sahib while referring to undemocratic governments in this region said,India would be ruled by rulers who would not be legitimate to do so. They would change the official rules and set of laws just like that. Law and order would scarcely prevail.
The followers of Hazrat Muhammad (Peace be upon him) would indulge in disgraceful criminal acts and immoral and indecent conduct.His views about religious leaders are not very encouraging. He saidThe muftis of that era would behave irresponsibly. They would issue fatwas (religious decrees) without any reason. (doesn’t it sound like Fatwas of Mulana Sufi Mohammed in Swat) but when it would come to speak the truth about the religion, they would start making despicable and lame excuses. He further said,The Islamic teachings would be like a blown out candle. No one would care about them. Scholars would be forcefully relegated to the lowest pedestals and the uneducated and amateurish would turn up as intellectuals and scholars.
His following few predictions about wars in the region are quite obvious. Naimat Shah said,Suddenly, the Muslims would face a quite jolting restlessness. They would fight a daring war with kafirs (non-Muslims) of the region. After a 17-day war the Almighty would bless the Muslims with a victory. They would earn this triumph after fighting a bloody war, daringly laying down their lives and rendering a lot of sacrifices. A Hindu leader would represent his country in another atheist country, where he would die while in his sleep.
(This refers to 1965 War. Lal Bahadur Shastri died of a heart attack in Tashkent, an atheist city of athiest Soviet Union.)
The people of the Muslim part of the Subcontinent would dethrone their ameer (President) and from then onwards they would earn a great humiliation. ( Khwaja Nazimuddin’s removal). After that there would be a great rage, calamity and chastisement. The punisher (Allah) would sentence those who would deserve it. Allah would issue a mass killing command. The eastern part of the country would tragically fall due to the deceitfulness of pretenders. The people of the western part would mourn over it. A big city of the eastern part would become a place of butchery and bloodshed. A mass killing would take place there and people would be slaughtered freely without any fear. A Muslim leader, in fact, would be an abettor of the kafirs and would lend them full support through his treachery. (The accursed Mujiburahman who chose his place in Hell among the Kuffars).
The person whose name would start with Gaaf (Persian alphabet having G as an alternative in English) and would contain six letters (maybe Gandhi) would remain victorious in this war due to his impiety and wickedness (Indira Gandhi).
Shah Sahib said:The Muslims of the western portion (West Pakistan) would have the blessings of Allah. The most responsible leaders, skilled scientists and highly professional and dedicated military experts would be available to them. All the Muslim countries would be looking towards them. Muslims from Turkey, Arabia, Iran and the Middle East would turn up with remarkable Ummah spirit to support them and the area of Chitral, Nanga Parbat, Gilgit, China and Tibet would become the main battlefield.
Hazrat Naimat Shah further said:The people of Kabul would also come out to kill kafirs (non-Muslims) who would run around from pillar to post and would make petty and paltry excuses to save their lives. They would literally beg the Muslims for their lives. The frontier would quiver and quake with the foot-beats of ghazis and mujahids of the frontier who would suddenly emerge out of nowhere. This event would take place after Eid-ul-Azha and the next Eid ul Fitr.
Wali said:�River Attock (Kabul) would be filled thrice, with the blood of kafirs, during that period. The Muslims would capture the whole Punjab (including Lahore city), Kashmir, the land situated between River Ganges and Yamuna (Uttar Pradesh province) and the city of Bijnaur. This war would remain among the human beings for good about six months and ultimately, God willing, the Muslims would be victorious. All the enemies and the ill-wishers of Islam would be killed and the whole India would be clean of Hinduism and Hindu traditions. Shah Naimat said:Suddenly there would be a great roar. It would be a catastrophic earthquake like the doomsday. It would cause great devastation and disruption in Sindh and Hind (India).
While predicting another bloody war he said:One of the two alifs (America and England (Inglistan) I have mentioned earlier, would be totally destroyed. Russia would attack the western alif (maybe England). Russia would also kneel down to China’s wrath, rage and fury and would be destroyed. However, to live in the world would beg China for immunity. Later on, one of the jeems (either Germany or Japan) would make an alliance with Russia against either of the alifs (America or England). Most lethal and explosive weapons would be used to an extent that the alif (America or England) would be totally wiped out from the world map and its name would remain merely in the history books. This would be a punishment for them from the Almighty and the generations would remember them as the iniquitous.
Islam would dominate India for at least forty years until Dajjal would emerge from the city of Esfahan. There would be a lot of sedition, disturbance, violence and war in the region. Khorasan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq would not be an exception. The war would devastate and desolate these countries as well until the Best Year as described by the Holy Quran would come. Imam Mehdi would attain prominence. He would appear during the Hajj days and suddenly he would become famous the world over. In my opinion, Imam Mehdi would appear before Dajjal’s appearance.
The Wali further predictsajjal’s forces would be in Esfahan and his army would be consisted of Jews and Christians and I am clearly seeing it. I can also see a dust storm rising up from Kufa. Jesus Christ would also descend from the heavens. I can see thousands of riders accompanying the Christ and finally Jesus, the son of Mary, would kill Dajjal with his own sword. Look Naimat Shah! Stop and do not disclose the secrets of Allah. I am predicting these events in the Islamic year 548 Hijri.Allah knows best.
Are there any predictions for Shoaib Sania’s marriage life, Pakistan’s cricket T20 worldcup campaign and their loss in Australia ?
Pakistan’s political instability ? How many of her rulers would be killed or would take asylum in othe countries ?
“After a 17-day war the Almighty would bless the Muslims with a victory.” – What a good Joke, Victory means Pakistan should have Kashmir now.
I hope someone selling you some feel good articles….
You fool intrigure.
If I tell a point, You should substantiate that I am wrong. It is easy for me to make a fun of you, but that makes me no better than you.
FYI ‘intrigure’ is not an English word.
pakistani army is less then india but have huge qualities.they can defeat any time to any one.because ALLAH is with muslim forces.
Why are you bringing religion into this?
Read the article by scrolling to the top. Don’t troll here.
Indians dont live in fools paradise. These fool pen pushers are not aware of Pak Might.
We have seen Pakistan’s might in 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999.
)
The matter of fact is USA do not want any direct clash with CHINA as they know if Pakistan will unstable then china would be effective. that is why USA want unstablity in pakistan & india taking the advantages. its fact that India is envloved in Baluchistan & all other areas of Pakistan. i am unable to understand that Indian donot have any idea that what they are trying…………..
i just know if Pakistan will unstable then INDIA should be DESTROYED because Pakistanis arent against CHINA & IRAN or AFGHANISTAN & in case of unstability in PAKISTAN INDIA would bear. so INDIANS dont do this we will end all your FUCKING tings soon & Countdown will be started.
You learn how to write a simple paragraph in English, and then you can end our ‘******* tings soon’
All Pakistanis are slaves of USA and will die without US and CHINA
Is that OK for a 52 years old Muslim to marry an 8 years old girl namely Ayesha…..;)
You surely need to live in today’s world by updating your information:
1 – Hazrat Ayesha(R.A)’s Age at the time of Nikah/Marriage | The Myth Exposed! – http://www.haqeeqat.org/2008/11/04/hazrat-ayesharas-age-at-the-time-of-nikahmarriage-the-myth-exposed/
2 – Did Ayesha(R.A) marry Prophet Muhammad (PbuH) at the Age of 6? – http://www.hidayat.org/blog/2008/11/03/the-young-marriage-of-ayesha-ra-with-prophet-muhammad-pbuh/
3 – Hazrat Ayesha was 17 at Nikah, Not 7 – http://www.hidayat.org/blog/2008/11/03/hazrat-ayesha-was-17-at-nikah-not-7/
4 – What was Ayesha (R.A)’s Age at the Time of Her Marriage? – http://www.hidayat.org/blog/2008/11/03/what-was-ayesha-ras-age-at-the-time-of-her-marriage/
Never bring Religion into India Pakistan Military Balance.
O hello, what about those who r mrtyrd on the time of seperatin n stillsuch thing is perticed under the shelter of indian govt.????
HardcoreIndian if you have enough medicines then try stopping AIDS epidemic in INDIA. Analysts has also predicted INIDA as next Africa. half population of INIDA hasn’t got anything to eat. Almost 500 Million revenue is generated from only prostitutes from Mumbai only. More than half of the population are living much below the standards of poverty line and are compelled to eat Mice to fulfil protein deficiency. More than 17 provinces are in war of inderpendence. I still can’t imagine what sort of shining INDIA is??? having economic development in delhi by having good mass transit doesn’t mean INDIA is now shining. Check your inner circles. INDIA is playing a very dual policy by funding heavily in Afghanistan to derail Pakistan just like your ex PM nehru did in 1948. you are playing on same coin but won’t get anything and histort is witness of it.
HardcoreIndian if you have enough medicines then try stopping AIDS epidemic in INDIA. Analysts has also predicted INIDA as next Africa. half population of INIDA hasn’t got anything to eat. Almost 500 Million revenue is generated from only pros from Mumbai only. More than half of the population are living much below the standards of poverty line and are compelled to eat Mice to fulfil protein deficiency. More than 17 provinces are in war of inderpendence. I still can’t imagine what sort of shining INDIA is??? having economic development in delhi by having good mass transit doesn’t mean INDIA is now shining. Check your inner circles. INDIA is playing a very dual policy by funding heavily in Afghanistan to derail Pakistan just like your ex PM nehru did in 1948. you are playing on same coin but won’t get anything and histort is witness of it
ITS TRUE INDIA HAVE TOO MUCH POOR PEOPLE BUT INDIANS NEVER BEG JUST LIKE PAKISTAN U R BEGGER NOW PAKISTAN IN FLOOD AND PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT BEG TO ALL COUNTRIES GIVE ME MONEY GIVE ME FOOD U BLADY BEEGER DONT SAY ANY THING C IN UR COUNTRY